Runbelievable: Real Runners, Unreal Stories

Ep 5: Ageless and Relentless

• Josh Rischin • Season 1 • Episode 5

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Episode Description

Runners slow down with age, right? Despite being tech-savvy, Mark Wigglesworth never got that brief.

After taking up running in his early 60s, Mark has gone from casual jogs and the occasional parkrun, to routinely clocking over 100 kilometres a week; regularly topping his age group and rewriting what’s possible later in life. But behind the stats lies a story of grit, resilience, and true self-belief.

In this uplifting episode of Runbelievable, Joshie and Matty sit down with a runner whose drive and discipline prove that it’s never too late to start. From a health scare that could have stopped him in his tracks to marathon adventures across the globe, Mark’s story shows that passion doesn’t retire... and that running can rebuild far more than fitness.

In this episode:

  • How Mark found running, and why he started in his 60s
  • Building the routine, discipline, and mindset for 100km+ weeks
  • The health scare that could have derailed it all
  • What keeps him chasing improvement every single day
  • The improbable goal he’s working towards

Runbelievable: real runners, unreal stories.

Follow us on Instagram @rnblv_official

Got a Runbelievable story or interested in being a guest on the show? Hit us up on socials or email us at joshua@runbelievable.au

🎧 New episodes drop fortnightly; hit follow so you don’t miss a lap!

Joshie:

Now, I've got no idea whether it was runfluences or maybe 1982 Deks that inspired me, but jeez, these shorts were short. My goodness. All you could see when I was wearing them was like this translucent flesh on my upper thigh that had clearly never seen the light of day. Hello everybody and welcome to Run Believable, the podcast where everyday runners share their not-so-everyday stories. I'm your host, Josh Richon, and I'm here to bring you stories of grit, glory, and overcoming adversity. Each episode we'll dive deep into what first got people running and what kept them lacing up day after day. From the laughs and the lessons to wearing shorts that reveal you don't actually have a fire gap. We're here to share what makes running a truly human experience. And later in this episode, you'll meet a runner who's the epiphany of you're never too old to start running. They say never meet your heroes, but failing any connectivity issues, we'll be sitting down with one of mine in a few moments' time. Maddie, welcome back. I know how excited you are whenever you get behind the mic. How are you on this lovely day?

Matty:

Yeah, good thanks, Joshy. Um, really well, thanks. Uh so yeah, everything's going well.

Joshie:

Now, before we kick off, I do want to give our growing band of listeners a shout out. Now, look, it's no secret, Maddie, that we're based in Brisbane and most of our early listeners are from this region. But I actually checked this morning, and somewhere between five and ten percent of our listeners are in the Sydney region. Now, I yeah, I'm not personally connected with any runners in that part of um the the world. So if you are indeed tuning in from Sydney, I hope this message finds you well, and please hit us up on Instagram. We would love to hear from you. Now, Maddie, let's get stuck into the Runbelievable rundown. And just a reminder, this is where we share highlights, mishaps, and little wins, the kind of stuff that Strava simply can't capture. Now, during the week, I put up a poll on our Instagram page asking if anyone had experienced a chafing DNF. And to my utter amazement, very few had. Now, apparently, Maddie, you've actually never even had chafing. How is that even possible? I don't know.

Matty:

I've I've never had it. I've always worn tights um from the moment that I started running. Um, whether that's uh the the answer, I don't know. Um we talking like Robin Hood men in tights, tights. I did when I first started running, I did wear long tights um because I started running in winter. Um and then I stopped when it became summer and had a bit of a break. So, but now it's just um like sort of what do you call them? Like short tights.

Joshie:

Yeah.

Matty:

Um yeah, they they work for me.

Joshie:

So um yeah, never experienced it. I don't know how that's possible because chafing seems to be the bane of pretty much every runner, myself included. And actually, that that poll that I put out did actually get me thinking a little bit about my own chafing experiences, and I actually recall the very first one that I had, which was a truly horrendous experience. Um when I started running, I would run in whatever felt comfortable. I really didn't care about how I looked. But there came a point in time where I became, I don't know, a little bit more self-conscious, I guess you'd say. Uh, and I got hooked on watching running videos. Now, I've got no idea whether it was Runfluences or maybe 1982 Deks that inspired me to buy these like three-inch split shorts. Um it was D's. I think it probably was D. Surely it's got to make me a faster runner, Maddie, wearing big things, but geez, these shorts were short. My goodness. All you could see when I was wearing them was like this translucent flesh on my upper thigh that had clearly never seen the light of day. Um by the time I realised it was too late, I'd already turned up at parkruns. So anyway, I was undeterred. I thought, why not give it a shot? It was Xilmir Parkrun, my first and only ever um attendance there. And look, they don't get that many people there, and I was so intent on finishing in the top ten. So off we go, bounding across the paddock like a gazelle. But Maddie, within about 800 metres, I noticed this horrendous burning sensation between my legs. It turns out that those dear old thighs of mine needed slightly more than three inches of protection. So chafed like a motherfucker. I shit walked the rest of the course, barely making it outside the bottom 10. Now, I've learned a lot of lessons since then, um, and my goodness, uh, to those fellow runners who have experienced chafe, which is pretty much all of you, I'm imagining I imagine. Any tips, let us know. I am still to this day trying to work out how best to avoid it.

Matty:

What about like you can get that um skin glide and you can get you can put Vaseline there? Does that do anything?

Joshie:

I've tried, but it's weird. It's almost as if I don't know, my body seems to find new vulnerable spots to experience chafe. Um, look, we could talk about this all day. Um we've got our guests eagerly waiting for us. So look, if you've got something that you'd like to contribute to the unbelievable rundown, whether that's a chafing war story or whatever, then send it our way. Now, Maddie, we're going to try a new segment this episode. I am completely done with over and under. Yeah. Um, not least because you're almost impossible to trip up. So I am sorry, I know that you really love that segment, but we're gonna try something new today. It's a game that I call shoe am I.

Matty:

So shoes and what type of shoe, I guess.

Joshie:

Well, the way it works is as follows. I'm going to give you up to five clues to guess the make and model of a running shoe. So, for example, the Nike Alpha Fly 3. Obviously, that's not going to be the answer, but just to give you an idea of what we're looking for. Now, you'll get five points if you get the answer correct after one clue, four points after two clues, so on and so forth. Now, if you guess incorrectly at any point, you will score zero points. Does that make sense?

Matty:

Yep, makes sense.

Joshie:

Cool. So feel free to play along at home and see if you can beat Maddie, who fancies himself as a bit of a shoe geek. Let's play shoe am I. Clue number one. I was released in 2022 and contained an S-curved nylon plate. Would you like to have a guess now for five points?

Matty:

An S-curved nylon plate.

Joshie:

S-curved. Um just a reminder, if you're guessing correctly, that's zero points. Yeah, another clone. Alright, for four points. My offset, that is, heel to toe drop, was eight millimeters. It is with a stack height of thirty-six mil and four foot of twenty-eight.

Matty:

Okay. I might have a guess.

Joshie:

That is incorrect. I'll tell you what, I'll let you have one incorrect guess. We'll keep playing that for three points, Maddie. I boasted advanced propulsion from proprietary technology called speed roll geometry.

Matty:

Speed roll. I've never heard of that term.

Joshie:

Um this is fantastic, by the way. I love tricky. Is it um New Balance Super Compolete? It is not New Balance Super Compilete. So that's zero points. If you're still playing along at home, for two points, our fourth clue. At standard means US size nine. I weighed 230 grams. Okay. And last clue for one point, my manufacturer name poorly rhymes with the word androgyny. Maddie, did you want to have a go withrogy? I did say poorly rhymes. I honestly don't know. Well, this website it said that it was a 92% rhyme with the manufacturer name.

Matty:

Manufacturer name androgyny.

Joshie:

Yeah, so apparently it 92% rhymes with the word androgyny.

Matty:

I don't I still don't know.

Joshie:

So I am the Sukoni Endorphin Speed. Okay, that didn't even pop into my head. People have been screaming into their phones right now. Yeah. Um how did you go at home? Feel free to let us know. Today's guest is yet to learn what the word aging means. A late starter to running, his feats continue to baffle sports scientists, getting fitter, stronger, and faster, despite being in his mid-sixties. He's built an engine that most of us can only dream of, routinely clocking well over a hundred kilometres a week, and topping his age grade at highly competitive events. But behind the numbers lies a story of tenacity, resilience, and remarkable self-belief. And I truly can't wait to sit down and speak with him. Please let's all welcome the one and only Mark Wigglesworth.

Matty:

Good to have you, Mark.

Joshie:

Thanks for the intro.

Mark:

Does that sound like me? I'd understand if this was episode 173, but I've I've listened to all your podcasts so far, and they're they're surprisingly very professional. I think you got you two guys have got a good rapport going. That that's what makes it.

Joshie:

Well we have yeah, we want to give you the gold standard introduction. We're not going to wait till episode 160 before you're taking me back.

Mark:

I might I might have a bit more of my story.

Joshie:

Mark, uh correct me if I'm wrong, but you took up running in your 60s whilst many of your peers were taking up bingo. What kick started your journey?

Mark:

Legs 11. Uh I used to go to bingo with my grandma. That uh no, why why did I take up running? Um actually, yeah, look, I I'm no couch potato. I I used to play a lot of squash. I did so I did that in my 20s and 30s. And just just like probably you guys are going through now or have have been through recently, um, kids came along and suddenly I could didn't have time to go out until late at night playing squash. And you know, I was I'm sort of guy who is either I'm all in or I'm I'm not in at all. So yeah, I was all in for squash, I was playing every day through my through my 20s and 30s, so it was amazing. I was actually getting free squash, I was um part of a team that got invited to um a club on the north side, and um yeah, so that that helped. But um why did I take up running? Well, I I didn't do much for a long time when I had kids. I had you know, I went out for the occasional three to four K run, you know, maybe a couple of times a week, so I wasn't doing nothing. Um, but um I tried to make a comeback to squash. The funny story is that I I snapped my Achilles heel completely snapped it, not not just you know, it needs a little bit of a touch-up, but it was it was major surgery. So um I had that done, and nothing felt right about going back to squash. I went on a squash court by myself and tried to run around, and it just was so inflexible that um I thought, well, yeah, look, I've got to just start walking at least to try and you know get some flexibility back in the Achilles. And um I did that and I I went back to the GP to to say, well, I've you know I've done done these things and it's still not getting much better. Um he suggested I start running. I I said, Well, look, I do I do run at the moment. I'm doing running two to three K a week. And he said, Well, do you do you do park runs? He said, Yeah, sometimes I go on the park, sometimes I I don't know what he was talking about, honestly. I think they took this was 2019, the year before COVID. Okay, so it was early in the year that um he said, uh yeah, do you do you do these, do you do park runs? So he explained what they were, and I looked it up on the net and like you know, I said, well, go along on Saturday. And what I thought it was was uh people just meet up at a park and they go for a run. And I said, So I thought, why do I have this barcode? And I thought, oh, that's that must be for in case you get lost. And I'll come looking for you because I'll you scan it in and you scan it out. And I had no idea it was a timed event. So anyway, turned up, I think I ran 26 minutes, so I thought, well, you know, I'm gonna go back next week and see if we're gonna do better than that, because I I really wasn't prepared for a race. So I did that, and um, yeah, I started to get into it. I I went every week, and um my brother is a mad keen Iron Man. So I mean the the full Iron Man, the full big ride, whatever it is, 180k and the the swim 10k is it the swim? And then it's marathon at the end. I know it's marathon at the end. And um, so I rang him and I said, Hey Rod, I'm trying I'm doing these park runs, but I think I've hit what's called a plateau, so I'm not getting any better. And um he's I said, Well, what do I do? What how do I train and get how do I get better? And he said, Well, you've got to do a long run. Oh, okay, how far do I have to go? And he said, Well, you usually go on Sunday and you you you run at least 10k. And I said, 10k? I don't know if I can run 10k. And um, yeah, so I did. The next next Sunday I went out and I did a 10k run and my back killed me. I remember stopping at Nunda, and I still had a another K K and a half to go to get home. So I live on the top of a hill at Wavell Heights. And um, yeah, I I got the 10k finished and and didn't improve things straight away, but yeah, it set me on a path that I you know I started to get a bit more serious, and I I asked him some more questions and he mentioned interval training, and I started to do that on on a Monday, I think it was, after the long run. I didn't know anything about how you do you do you don't do two hard days in a row. I didn't know anything about anything like that. You know, I didn't know anything about strength training, so I I ended up getting injured really badly that later that year, and I got what was called PHT. If I've ever had that proximal hamstring tendinopathy.

Matty:

Okay, okay.

Mark:

It's the upper part of the hamstring that you know joins onto the onto your glutes, and um yeah, it it the whole tendon, it's not snapped or anything, it's just becomes malformed and it's literally a pain in the butt because otherwise you can still run, which which I found really weird. The physio said you can get go for a run, but you but you um yeah, you'll have to you know be in pain after after you do it, that you've got to do this all this physio. So I um well I keep going with this story. Uh oh by all means, I mean what one sure but I I I end up get finding whoever was whoever helped had on the internet the best story about how to get rid of this thing. And I I I found this guy um who's the official physio for Gold Coast Marathon by uh by token. And his name's um actually I'll mention his name because he's yeah you know promotes his business anyway. His name's Brad Beer. And as in as in yeah, let's have a beer.

Matty:

Yeah, yeah.

Mark:

Oh, that's pretty cool. Um and uh his he was a different sort of a physio. He's he's about you come and see him and you've got something, he'll say, Well, you do you do this program, or you you need to look at taking up another sport. And uh you know, not it's not that he's like the Gestapo or anything, he's not he's a pretty nice guy. And um he he did a program for me and he had a gym next door to his his um practice at um uh one one of those suburbs at the Gold Coast at the back of Surface Paradise anyway. Yeah, yeah. And um and he he took me through this um full running gate strength program, which I I thought, well I you know, I'd never thought I'd have to do that to to be a runner, and uh so that's when I discovered strength training, and he he I went back there and I was so committed. I drove down the gold case every four weeks and he he altered the program and and yeah, from January to June, it took me six months to get rid of this thing. Oh which and it but it was in covert year, yeah. So I I had all this this time where I wasn't preparing for any races anyway, and to to to rehab, and and during that time that I was rehabbing, I went from and I looked this up this morning, I went from 30k a week, which was in you know late 2019, this December, to 100k a week by June.

Joshie:

And I did it fairly ridiculous.

Mark:

I did it by time, so what wasn't so much I was watching the mileage, it was about yeah, every week I'd just add on 10 minutes, and gradually I just kept going up and up and up, and um, I think it was 10 minutes anyway. Whatever it was, it got me from 30k to to 100k in the in the six months.

Joshie:

Yeah, and um well marks um yeah, you must be slightly ahead of that now. I I just checked Strava in this calendar year. Bear in mind we're in October, you've run over 4,000 kilometres, which is just shy of the five and a half thousand I've done in the Corolla.

Mark:

Definitely had an easier year.

Matty:

4,000? That's that's unbelievable.

Mark:

Well, I see I started this year's a little bit different. I I started off the year I tried to race this segment. And you know a guy in the club who runs this who ran the segment and he holds the record for it. Maybe I should mention his name or let's um anyway. You wouldn't think if if I told you his name, you wouldn't think he's that competitive. He actually is, he's very fast up up that you know that hill.

Joshie:

I know who you're talking about, yeah.

Mark:

Steep hill.

Joshie:

Yep, I know who you're talking about.

Mark:

Yeah, it starts at the bottom, there's some ballards and right on Gimpy Road, and then you run up around the corner, and it almost kills you. You can almost almost have almost have to walk the last last 10 metres because it's so steep. It's like a I guess the gradient is 15% or 20% or something like that.

Matty:

Yeah.

Mark:

And um, yeah, I thought I every year I say I'm gonna challenge you this time, and I never quite get there, and this time I I wasn't I wasn't sort of in the the level of fitness to to really come near it, and I heard my hamstring. So I started off the year badly. Anyway, um what were we talking? What were we talking about?

Joshie:

Oh well, I was just uh truly staggered that uh you've nearly run as far as what I've done in the corolla this year. I guess what I wanted to check with you is um to what would you say that your um or to what would you attribute your resilience? I mean, like you say, you've been able to build up to some incredible volume, and you know, I think you said that you you did have some injuries in the early days, perhaps whilst you were ramping up a bit too quickly. I mean, yeah, um there's there's surely something that's complementary to your running regime, whether it's strength and conditioning that must help. I mean, what can you tell us about the sort of the stuff that's um peripheral or ancillary to running?

Mark:

Well, I I definitely strongly believe in strength training, and I do I do three sessions a week. I've got my home gym. So I've got um I've got a very minimalistic gym. All I think you need is some of those stretchy bands. I buy the black ones from Rebel Sport, so the fabric, fabric ones. I think all you need is one of those, some heavy dumbbells. I've got two fifteens and I've got a 24 kilo kettlebell. So I think if you're gonna do white trade weight training or any strength training, you need to go heavy. And I I also have had a lot of success with just doing you know, those band walks, you just walk like a monster monster walk. Um, I call it the gunslinger walk, as you almost feel like you're you know you're moving like the old gunslingers, so and the guns strapped to them. And um, I walk 10 metres forward, 10 metres back, and I'll do that so three times, and I'll do the other stuff with uh you know single leg squats and and um you know calf raises with kettle with the kettlebell, and I'll um I'll do these things called Nordic curls, and this is where I've got serious. I've actually drilled into my garage and stuck some diner bolts in there with with loops, and then I've got the the ankle straps with the hooks, and then I hook in with my ankles, and I then you you get a pillow in front of you and you go forward as far as you can. It saves stops the couch lifting up in the air. Yeah, it saves a couch. So I used to do that and then put the 24 kilo kettlebell on the couch, and I and I thought, well, this can't be very good for the couch. I said I wasn't a couch potato, but I did I do actually like couches.

Joshie:

Yeah.

Mark:

It to be in one piece at least. So um, yeah, they're they're fantastic. Nordic curls, they're like 10 on a scale of 10 in terms of um what you can get out of them.

Matty:

Can I just also ask, Mark, in terms of like 4,000 kilometres um so far this year is a massive amount of running.

Mark:

I think I thought I was actually you know a bit lower than last year. Strava's telling me I'm 10 10 or 15% down. I had two years where I really decided I wanted to build the aerobic engine up, and that was 23 and 24. And I I actually averaged something like 110 kilometres per week, including all of the tape and everything else. And um both of them were both of them had really big marathon blocks in them as well. I think 20, yeah, it was 2023. I PB'd my marathon on the Gold Coast 311, and earlier that year I did three, I remember I did three 160k weeks. I wanted to do uh the 100 mile, which is actually 161.

Matty:

160, yeah, something like that. Yeah.

Mark:

Yeah, so I did that for three weeks and then I had a down week. That's typically what I do. I go three hard weeks to one down week, and I'll drop it to about 120.

Matty:

Is there like I mean doing that sort of stuff though, like that sort of volume and getting up each day and thinking, okay, here we go again, you must have a s like it's more than just say, here we go again. But it's more than just getting up and running. And it you've got to have the love for it to be able to do that sort of volume.

Mark:

Yeah, look, I I know. I I've sort of I was thinking back, how did I do that? Because I want to do it again this this coming year. I actually want to start, I want to start in December. So I'm thinking December, January, Feb, I'm gonna do a like a base builder, and I'm and I'm gonna do do it. That takes me into 12 weeks, I think, or 16 weeks of marathon training before Gold Coast, whatever it is. Um, and uh yeah, I want to do it again, just to prove to myself, yeah. And and I think it works. I I really strongly believe that building the aerobic engine, you know, whether you're whether or not you're training for a marathon or whether you're training for a even a 5K, you know, Arthur Lidgard, the famous coach, if you go and look at some of his material, he he he he proved it. He he proved it on himself. But um, you know, he didn't New Zealander, uh, he was suddenly this New Zealand coach was producing Olympic champions, and everyone said, What are you doing? And that's that's basically what he did. He just he looked at aerobic volume. Because everything from five carpers is an aerobic race, isn't it?

Matty:

Yeah, that's right.

Mark:

5k is just short and hard.

Matty:

Yeah, yeah.

Mark:

Look, I I don't think I don't know if I'm evading your question here, but I don't think I've got a lot of fast twitch muscles. I think I've got a a couple of fibers in each of my legs that and they get bloody tired in a 5k I can tell you. You guys you guys have probably got way way faster twitch muscles, way more fast twitch muscle fibres than I have.

Joshie:

Well, 20 years younger, don't forget.

Mark:

I mean Yeah, yeah. Were you running 400 and 800s and and you know sort of middle distance stuff?

Joshie:

I was I was running for the tuck shop to be honest. Yeah, yeah.

Mark:

I was never good, and never ever any good at that short stuff, but at the end of the day when they had the 5,000 meter race on Sports Day, you know, I'd I would I'd place third. I wouldn't it wasn't winning it, but and people would read out my name and hey, Spark Wheelsworth, it's you doing there. But I was always better at the longer stuff.

Joshie:

Yeah. Now look, Mark, we're we're blessed to live here in the subtropics, which um is fantastic for living, but it's hardly good prep for a marathon in freezing cold conditions. Um what can you tell us about your soul marathon experience? Soul, yeah.

Mark:

That that was that was the most fun marathon that I've done because um you when you're in another country and you've you know you you you're you're sampling their culture, you know, it can be a bit weird, but um yeah, that this this soul marathon, I I started right at the back of the pack. It just I I've got actually a photo that my wife took of me with the rope across, and I'm right at the front behind this rope because I didn't have a place, I didn't have a uh a seat in because I I'd never run in so in um Korea before, in South Korea, so I couldn't go and join the 315 group or whatever. But I had come off a good gold coaster um in July, and this was um this was October. So I'd run through 313 in in on the gold coast, and uh I um I ran through the pack from four the four-hour group, mate, made it up to the 330s, and then I I kept going. I made it to the 315s, and I thought, oh, this is all I have to do, I'll just say with these 315 paces, and um they started chanting. And I don't know what the hell they were chanting. It sounded a bit weird to me, but uh they're chanting for you, Mark. Keep going. Maybe they they were go go Aussie, go Aussie. Um so I I ran past them and I'd end up with 314, and I thought that was really that was really happy with that because I thought the gold coast 313, that was you know the perfect flat race and everything. This was this was up and down hills and crossed the um the Han River three times because in the sh they made it in the shape of an S. It wasn't the spot the the Seoul marathon, which is early in the year. This is uh called the Seoul JTBC, which is uh content provider, like more like like seven plus or something like that. Okay. And um, but it really well organized, really you know, well-run race. They had the the weirdest thing though was they had just they had all these sponges. Like before you went up went up a hill, they'd give you a they'd hand out sponges, and this is like zero degrees. Why don't why do I want this cold sponge? It was heated up, it'd be different, but yeah, you're actually wearing they gave you the most excellent race kit. I remember they they gave you sleeves and they gave you gels and and wow um like heat packs, like like not gels to eat, though. Sorry, they're uh you know gels that you actually put on your your skin to um warm you up. Like all that stuff, Voltir and that's that's what and uh and something to eat. They give you like a Packaged up um roll. And um yeah, it was just a really well organized marathon. That there was a nice area to get photos with, and it didn't actually work very well because it had an L C D readout and you know it was in the sun, but it had your time on it. You just scanned your your bib when you went up to the platform and it would say who you know who you who you are, and this would be your time. But um that was a good idea. Um yeah, that was probably my the best marathon because I didn't actually I've always had this problem with marathons that I get nausea at the end. And that's what's been holding me back. I end up running quite well until the last 10k. I mean I I I just would love to not fade away in the last 10k, and I haven't done it yet. But this that day with in Seoul, maybe because it was cold, I only actually actually had one gel. I started to get I started to get the nausea that I'd I'd had in the the Gold Coast.

Joshie:

You know, it's interesting. Trying to nail race day nutrition is really difficult.

Mark:

I mean, you know, I'm also quite new to you apart from me.

Joshie:

To running, but yeah, I mean we very rarely practice um you know taking on board gels or other forms of nutrition during our our training runs. I mean, it's quite on on a long run, for example, it's quite easy to you know, yeah, take take some on. But yeah.

Mark:

I I had this conversation with a coach and not John, it's an another guy, and um he he said it was it's really hard if you don't if you don't actually get it in the long run, you know, you if you can't produce it, I've never been able to reproduce it in any long runs, no matter what that what they've been. I've gone on some pretty big long runs like 36, 38k.

Matty:

Yeah, you have, yeah.

Mark:

I've never ever got this nausea as what I get really in the last 10k of marathon. But but we've I've done some research and I've done done a little bit of a trial. Ginger. It it's it sounds weird, but uh I don't know how I got onto it, but that those travel calm yeah, I was gonna say travel calm, yeah. Yeah, they don't have any drug in them.

Matty:

I thought they had some sort of drowsy drug and you'd you know you'd fall asleep. Is it a ginger extract, is it?

Mark:

Yeah, it's just ginger. They really make your guts feel warm inside. That's a that but that's you know, that's something you can live with, but it's much better than the than the nausea. But I tried that right at the end of the Sydney marathon last year. And um yeah, instead of me bailing over at the end, which I've been normally which I normally do, and I can't talk to anyone and can't walk for about 10 minutes, I I actually as soon as I took them right at the end of the marathon, I don't know why I took didn't take it sooner, um, I just started walking with this girl and I started talking to her, and I was really realizing, hey, the nausea's gone. So that's my indication that this this these ginger tablets will work next time. So I'm holding out a lot of hope.

Joshie:

What I'd love uh Mark about yourself, I mean you're not just committed to running, you're constantly looking at ways that you can continue to improve, and that's not just the actual running, but the stuff that is complementary to running, whether it's um you know how you manage nausea on race day and how you um sort of manage um rehabilitation. We'll talk in a few moments about some of your um some of your setbacks, but I mean, do you ever get the sense that you've almost become uh a victim of your own success? I mean, I was thinking about this a little bit earlier. I'm sure I'm not the only person who's opened up Strava and just gone, oh yeah, Wigglesworth just won his age grade again, or you know, Mark's just gone straight from hospital to another long run. I mean, hope you I hope you realise that um silently you you're you're the envy of your running peers. What you're able to achieve is um is is quite incredible.

Mark:

I'm just a boring shit. I just do get up and do the same thing every day. Seriously. When I get in those marathon blocks, I don't know. I I really can't remember what my state of mind is, but I I don't ever feel that oh no, I can't do this today. I I just kind of look forward to it in a weird sort of a way. And I know I you know you probably say, well, why do you run you know mostly by yourself? Well, I don't know, I just I I'm happily I I like running with people, but I I just you know I just sort of keep going. I don't know.

Joshie:

Do you feel that some there's a lot of people who we know who we run with that would uh by the way put their hands up and admit that they're addicted to running. I get the sense that for you you're not necessarily addicted to running, you're just passionate about it and you really enjoy it.

Mark:

Yeah, I think, yeah, it's it's a passion. True. It's it's a yeah you know. I went to I was thinking actually this morning, I went went to this orthopedic surgeon about my my hip. That's been the ongoing thing. It's it's actually really good now. I call it a niggle, but it's um it's it's still I'm still in the game. As I left, I told him all about, you know, I yeah, went in these age grading things and and I was doing alright. And he said, um have a good as I went out of the office, he said, um, I think your hip's gonna be alright till it's not alright. Have a good career. I'm thinking, career? Did he say career? I'm thinking, yeah, the job I do, I I'm virtually in, I would say I'm in my retirement job. I work three days a week now. So I would say I put a lot more effort into running. Running comes first as I organise my week than than my job. Although I like my job and I like getting things done.

Matty:

Yeah, yeah. I'm pretty much the same, pretty much the same.

Mark:

I just like getting shit done. I'm not a yeah, I'm not you know, I'm a developer, but I'm not a actually the the department I work in is called GHQ, which is geek headquarters. But I've I would never describe myself as a geek, maybe a running geek, but not not not not as a software geek. And I don't even like Star Wars, to be honest. I thought, oh, this is a bit predictable. Yeah, he's gonna go back with his false arm and save the planet, whatever.

Joshie:

One thing which I wouldn't mind just making uh clear to listeners is a lot of what we've spoken about isn't tongue-in-cheek. You genuinely did take up running seriously in your um early 60s around the time you turned 60.

Mark:

I was what's 2019? That was six years ago. So I would have been yeah, 62. 68 in December. Oh wow.

Joshie:

Um and yeah, you you genuinely have um won your age grade at a a number of events. Um one thing which I did want to ask, and you know, with all your recent running success, do you have any regrets about not taking up running more seriously when you were younger?

Mark:

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely, yeah. Every time I run past one of those burnt runners. That's right. 40 years ago, that could have been me. Yeah, that's right. That's right.

Joshie:

Yeah, when you say run past them, you mean o over to overtaking them, Mark, I'm sure.

Mark:

No, it's a good guy. Um there's a guy because uh of your name's sake, Joshua um is a really he's a real idol of mine. He's he's he's a fantastic runner, he's a bird runner.

Matty:

And um I know him, yeah.

Mark:

We run past each other. When I was doing the Saturday morning long runs, um, he was doing his Saturday morning long run. I think he takes Sunday off. And um, yeah, we we just see the same place every week because we both must have started must have started from the at the same time at 4 30 in the morning, whatever. I I'm pretty religious, I do tend to do the same course every week. If I mean I'm I'm a boring ship, but um I'm I'm I'm trying to switch it up a bit now. I'm trying a few different things, and um my son's a big um a big thing in my life. He um he's autistic spectrum disorder, and um so I look after him every every Saturday, but we go running as well. I drive over to his uh independent living um flat where he shares with a couple of other um pro people with the same problems, and um he uh he was putting on a lot of weight, and I've been taking him running on Monday, Monday, Wednesday, Friday. I mean, we what we do is he just walks to the other side of a rugby field and runs back. But he does that three three or four times, but he's he's dropped his weight from 126 down to 111 last Saturday. Awesome. I think it's fantastic, and and that's not just the running, it's you know, controlling his portions and things. So he he's a big um a big part of my life, um as well as my new grandson, I guess, who um is now 10 months old.

Matty:

Awesome.

Mark:

So yeah, yeah, I do have a life outside of running it and and the the three days a week that I I work as a dev, we call we call ourselves. Um did I answer your question, by the way?

Joshie:

Uh you did. I was sort of asking about you know whether or not you had any um any regrets about not taking running more seriously when you were younger, but um, you know, hope hopefully you realize that it's it's put you in good stead for taking up running in in your 60s. I mean, look at what you're what you're able to achieve. But um one thing which um I'm not sure if you want to speak about this, but I'll give you the opportunity. I mean, your journey hasn't been without its challenges. Um and not many people know that you had um I think quite a quite a health scare only a few months back. Um and correct me if I'm wrong, I think you referred to it as something called transient ischema or something along those lines.

Mark:

Yeah, that scared the shit out of me. There um actually this whole whole year's been a bit bit weird. Yeah, I had this thing, and um it's um it's possi it's a possible um what's the word? It's something before you get a stroke. Like a precursor or yeah, that's the word, precursor. And uh it's um it's a called a TIA, transient in Semic Attack. And um, but the the key word there is it's um transient. So what happened was I had double vision. I was I was working on as I do on a Monday at the office, and I was sitting next to next to a guy, and uh I I tore this double vision on my two computer screens, and uh suddenly they there were four computer screens. And I looked at him and there were two of him as well. And so I stood up, I just thought this is just a bit a bit strange, something's just you know, I've just been focusing on the um on the text for too long, and it persisted. It kept going for about two or three minutes, which was and really well. I said I said to him this I'm gonna need um need some assistance, so I could par like paramedic assistance. Something weird's going on here, and he he got a first aid person. They they they liaised with the ambulances and tried to get somebody over there, and they went through the the you know the normal things you do and you know checked checked whether I was hot and you know whether what my other vital signs were as much as I could see, but um it stopped all of a sudden, you know, after a couple of minutes, yeah, it just went away and I was feeling normal again. They came out anyway, the the paramedics and gave me a blood uh blood pressure test and and um whatever else they do. Um pulse um that's about it, isn't it? What else do they do?

Matty:

Yeah, just your vitals, yeah.

Mark:

Yeah, just my vital signs. And they said, yeah, they they mentioned they were the first to mention TIA. You could have had this TIA. So then then it over the next two to three weeks I had to go through all these MRIs and ultrasound, and and then this one ultrasound report came back and said uh I had something wrong with my um carotid artery, like plaque in my carotid artery. So so that was followed up with a a vascular surgeon and appointment, and and I went along to him and uh he said, Why are you here? I said, Oh, you know, I've had this TIA, blah blah blah, and you know, the ultrasound. And I don't agree with the ultrasound, it's uh they've made a mistake, they've measured it wrong, and then they didn't they didn't check the flow rate on either side of the of the the artery where they're saying it's a blockage and there's no difference in the flow rate. He said, Oh, I won't, you you won't, you're not no different to any other you know, 67-year-old male. Oh, geez, this has made my day. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with me. He's I said, Well, what could possibly have caused? And he said, Well, it it could possibly have been dehydration. And I remember I came off a really hard marathon workout that weekend. I possibly didn't recover from that. And um that's the only thing I can think of. But I've had no recurrence since um I I trust this. I I checked around, and this guy apparently is very well recognised um as a vascular surgeon, and um yeah, nothing's come up since um I've sort of been all in in the I'm in the auction now. And the only good thing is about all these, have all I've had all these tests done. I also had some radiotherapy on a skin cancer, and I had to go 20 times, would you believe, to make sure this thing didn't recur into the nerves because it that there's BCCs, which are basal cell carcinomas, and this there's squamous cell carcinomas, and then squamous get into your nerves, so I had to have this radiotherapy. So after all of these, my you know, I've paid out all this money to to get all this all this stuff done, and sudden suddenly you go over this threshold. So if I go to a doctor now or a specialist, it's like about five bucks or something. This fantastic threshold. So I'm trying to think what else can I get done this year? So that's the good part of it. But um, no, I'll it's actually made me feel better about my general health because I I obviously from this um this I've also had some prostrate um some tests as well, and and they've they've checked checked me over, and I definitely don't have any cancers or any growths or anything like that. But I've got this this weird thing that happens to men of my age that your your prostate just grows and it gets bigger, and suddenly you've you know getting up once a night is like a luxury. It's more like four to six times a night. I actually cheat I cheated last night and I had a couple of um a couple of neurofin, which like any inflammatories, and that that that makes you only get up about two or three times. So I only do that about once or twice a week. I take two neurofin going to bed just to help me sleep. But that's all gonna be over, hopefully, on November 14. Or not sorry to not immediately, but I'm having this um procedure done that actually shrinks the down, actually going and into the artery, and they they do something called emeralization. Um, it's called PAE, prostrate uh artery emeralization, and that eventually after about I think it's up to months or something later, your prostate starts to shrink and everything goes back to not maybe normal, but it gets back to a stage where you yeah, you've made a huge improvement with you know not having that pressure on your bladder because the prostate shrinks down.

Joshie:

So can I ask, Mark, whenever you go into these appointments and with a specialist, if ever they recommend a procedure, is your first question how long do I have to take off running?

Mark:

Absolutely. Well, you think I've chosen there's about three other procedures you can get. I said, Oh, can you run the next? He said, You can walk out the next walk out that day, as long as you have somebody to take you home. Oh, that's great. What about can I run the next day? He looked at me funny, he said, Well, you well, you could, but you probably won't feel like you you want to because you you're gonna you get apparently this fever from having the the procedure done. Okay. Um but fever, smever, you know. If I'm feeling okay, I'll go for it. Yeah. If it's part of your life and you you can possibly use that to to make you feel better that's right because of your your general well-being, well, why not?

Joshie:

Well, I think if ever if ever there's a moment that embodies the the spirit of Mark Wigglesworth, it's a photo of you on Strava, I think, from last year or maybe the year before. On the long run, bruised, and I think I checked the following day, you somehow managed to do a 30k long run or something.

Mark:

Well, yeah, I had to continue with I was in the middle of a long run when I fell over. I was well for a brief moment I thought I'd I'd be able to get up and keep going. But then then I just saw this blood just falling off my face. I tried to hail down a couple of cyclists to um to to just check me over. They didn't stop the buggers. So um I sort of had to give myself a HIA to hit injurious. What day is this? Oh, it's Saturday. Who's the Prime Minister? Um Scott Rogers. And anyway, I um yeah, I uh what happened was I was wearing the Alpha Flies, and you know how they don't have any give, they're so stiff. I just had to clip this um this um telecom that telestrop um box. It was probably old enough to be telecom they didn't put the lid down properly, and I just clipped it and I I just went over straight over on onto a it was a corner uh just near um Northgate station, I think it was. Um no, is it Northgate? Yeah, anyway, somewhere around there, and um yeah, like I I went it went like knees, elbows, face because with momentum. The face was the last one, but it was on that really rough bitumen as well that had yeah, yeah. Not the smooth stuff, the the really rough stuff, and yeah, I I I gashed my face. I didn't need any stitches, I think, any searches. I I just basically basically just glued it back on, I glued it back together. Yeah, but I had yeah, bandages on my face and my knees, my elbows, and shoulder, shoulder, that was the other thing, shoulder. And um, yeah, I I I went home, I ran home, which I can't even remember. Blood all over.

Matty:

Oh wow.

Mark:

I was just I was hoping I just didn't run it. I didn't see anybody because I was mate, it was five five or five thirty in the morning at that stage, and um you know, I just ran up Radie Road and got got to home and I scored out my wife before you come down, I've got blood all over me, but it's all okay. We're just gonna go up to the hospital. And yeah, I went to the private emergency, you know, it's it's where you pay $400 and they give you the first class treatment. You don't have to wait, otherwise I'll be waiting in casualty for two hours. So I just walked in there and they they were really good. They fixed me up. And yeah, went home and went running the next day, and I think I ran past a certain member of the Chernside um running community or turnside in training club who um must have ged up whoever it was running with, but they clapped as I went as I went past.

Joshie:

I just would have shook my head in disbelief. Uh yeah.

Mark:

I thought I felt okay otherwise, you know. I just had just had a bit of skin missing. Gross back.

Joshie:

Honestly, I'm true, yeah, truly amazed at your um resilience, Mark. Um we've got just a couple of questions before we um before we wrap up. Um what would you say is your greatest running achievement?

Mark:

My greatest running achievement.

Joshie:

Something that you sort of look back on and think, you know, whether it either all came together or something where you overcame adversity, just something that you think is in your I guess hall of fame?

Mark:

That's a good question. Um there's been a lot. Um probably the I know 5k is actually my nemesis. It's like the race that scares me the most. I'll be I'll be so nervous before a 5k, but I'll go to a marathon and it'll just all be in my stride. Maybe because of the build-up or something. Marathon, you've just basically you've done so many months of preparation, you just follow follow the plan. But 5k's um yeah, they they hurt.

Matty:

5k really hurts, and that's where I think the anxiety comes in. And um, yeah, that's right. I think huge anxiety. You know you're gonna be in pain.

Mark:

I've got it now, because there's a there's a 5k race I'm going in on the weekend. But yeah, first time I went under 20 minutes in the 5k, because the what happened was that was at the end of that big year I had when I first went to 100k and the COVID year. So the first the first park run back was November, right? And without any training, I I would I had got gone the year before so many park runs trying to break 21, and I was never get never gonna get there. I don't even get I even come close to breaking 21. But after this COVID year where there's no park runs, I just ran. Suddenly it was 2018. I thought, oh geez, that's alright. I ran 2018, I haven't run it run in a race for such a long time, and I've broken 21. I thought, what if I do some training towards the towards a 5k? And so I did that for about six weeks. I I just got a training program off the internet, I followed that religiously, and yeah, but I went back and I ran 1946, so I took 30. That's hard to take 30 seconds off. Oh, yeah, it is at any time, isn't it? And I just felt really good because everything had gone to plan. Um yeah, I just just went out and just just did it. Awesome. Fantastic. Had some good runners that day. Yeah, a couple of couple of other people who were just behind me. Um, and um, yeah, it was just a great day to achieve something.

Joshie:

Yeah, oh I love that. Um I can see you putting your shoes on in the background. I can tell that you're itching to get out and run again. But before we finish up, um, what's on the horizon for for next year? Is there any either event or or goal that you have your site set on?

Mark:

Yeah, well big big, as I said before, big base building session or um big base building planned. So I'm gonna do about three months of that. Um I've booked in so far for Sydney. So because I did the candidacy race in 2023, I think it was, where they were trying to set themselves up to become an Abbott major, um, they gave gave you um uh guaranteed entry for the next next three years. So all I had to do was just just um send them a name. They'd send me an email and I just responded back to that with the link and filled everything out. So I'm all paid up as a um competitor for for Sydney next year, which is um exactly eight weeks after Gold Coast. So that so I'm gonna do Gold Coast. Yeah. So I think yeah, I did the Gold Coast half this year, and I yeah, I got that got that from my age age group, which was good. And I got a nice trophy, you know, they usually just give you medals. So I'm gonna go back and do the do the um don't call don't ever call marathons full marathons, and somebody told me that because it There's only one marathon. Yeah, it it depreciates it deprecates the half marathon because the half marathon is a hard race. Yeah, I'm doing the full marathon, not the hard it's the marathon. Yep. And um so I'm gonna do that and Sydney eight weeks apart. I hope that goes well. I think the key with that is the um is the recovery from from the first one.

Matty:

Yeah.

Mark:

So hoping to hoping to keep the same level of fitness.

Joshie:

So for next year, is it a a time-based or an age grading kind of goal that you've got your site set on?

Mark:

Yeah, well, I want to get back to under 315. I've I've done I've now done three under 330 and three under 315. So I want to get back to adding another one to that under 315. Square the ledger, I love that. I really want to break 310, to be honest.

Matty:

Yeah, uh that'd be awesome.

Mark:

Look, I mean, if you you if you gave me some special training program to um to break three, and it would guarantee that I'd do it, like run around Marchant Park at midnight for six weeks naked. Sign up for that. I still haven't thrown out thrown that out the window that I could. So would I I'd sign up for that as well.

Joshie:

Oh, yeah. I'd happily sign up as a spectator.

Mark:

No cameras allowed, no phones allowed. Um we still hope to do it. I mean, I I know I'm approaching 70, like 68, 68 in two months, December. Um so 69. But yeah, I'd I would yeah, I it's not impossible. It's not, no. My my my brain can say, well, all I have to do is run better than 415 uh per 415 per K.

Matty:

Um over 42k, you still like how it's uncomprehendable for me, yeah.

Joshie:

It's like that's all I have to do. Um for some people, like it's a that's a time trial, you do realise. Um for us mere mortals. That's um well, that's fantastic. And look, um Mark, thanks um so much for joining us on Run Believable. It really has been a joy speaking with you, and yeah, we um we certainly wish you all the very best over the next um 12 months in particular, but beyond that, with your running goals, and yeah, it's um once again thanks so much for taking the time to speak with us today.

Mark:

Thanks, Josh. Thanks, Maddie.

Joshie:

Thanks, mate. See you see you soon. See you, mate. Wow, Maddie, what an inspiration. Um hearing Mark's story, I'll be brutally honest, makes me feel somewhat conflicted, I guess. Um, I'm not sure whether it gives me a sense of hope or despair because what what he's able to achieve at his age, let alone any age, is um is quite incredible.

Matty:

Yeah, I I think it's really inspirational, and I think for myself, like I hope I can keep running till that age and and run well like he is. Um, you know, he obviously gets a lot out of it as well. Yeah.

Joshie:

Tell you what, all all he has to do is run 42.2ks at 415 pace. Yeah. Yeah. If you've got a run believable story of your own, we'd love to hear it. Make sure that you follow us on Instagram and if you want to be a guest on the show, then hit us up. And finally, this podcast relies on your continued support. So please take the time to follow, rate, and share this podcast with your running mates and see you in the next run believable adventure.