Runbelievable: Real Runners, Unreal Stories

Ep 6: From Setback to Strength: Trail Safety, Mindset, and Recovery with Ash O’Loughlin

• Josh Rischin • Season 1 • Episode 6

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Episode Description

Running injuries can break your body and spirit.

After back-to-back wins at the Guzzler 21K, trail runner and paediatric physio Ash O'Loughlin was flying. Then, a complex knee injury brought everything to a halt; forcing her to swap long runs for long rehab sessions and rethink her relationship with running.

In this raw, emotional and inspiring episode of Runbelievable, Joshie and Matty sit down with Ash to talk about recovery, resilience, and rediscovering joy when you can’t do the thing you love most. From confronting moments on the trails to reclaiming her confidence and redefining her “why,” Ash’s story reminds us that the toughest races aren’t always between the start and finish line.

In this episode:

  • How Ash went from teenage runner to two-time Guzzler 21K champion
  • The complex injury that changed everything
  • Reclaiming trail safety and confidence after a confronting experience
  • Finding new ways to stay sane when sidelined
  • Why stepping back sometimes moves you forward

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Ash:

One of the things I'm proud of is making the decision to stop running, which is sounds insane, but that was one of the hardest decisions I've ever made is to go, enough's enough. Let's let my body heal and try to build back up again. And that was really scary.

Joshie:

Hello everybody and welcome to Run Believable, the podcast where everyday runners share their not-so-everyday stories. I'm your host, Josh Tristan, and I'm here to bring you stories of grit, glory, and overcoming adversity. Each episode, we'll dive deep into what first got people running and what keeps them waking up day after day. From the laughs and the lessons, the half marathon is getting in the way. We're here to share what makes running a truly human experience. And later in this episode, you'll meet an accomplished runner who's currently taking an injury forced timeout. Doesn't that suck? But we are going to hear about what she's doing in the interim to stay sane. Maddie, welcome back. How are you, my friend?

Matty:

Yeah, good, thanks, Josh. Um yeah, really well. Um things are going great. Uh still keeping up uh my weekly training, so yeah, all good. All good. Good run. Did you run this morning? No, I didn't. I wanted to, but I couldn't.

Joshie:

So a rare day off.

Matty:

Yeah, I might run later today, but it might be too hot. Just wait.

Joshie:

Yeah, it's not too bad out there. I ran this morning, as you know. Um look, I'll be honest, man, after Melbourne, I'm yeah, still really struggling to find motivation to run. So it was good to get out there, but I don't know. As runners we go through these moments where we're not necessarily enjoying things, and that's okay. Um, I guess we just need to listen to our minds and our bodies and just do what's best.

Matty:

Definitely.

Joshie:

You gotta you gotta enjoy it. You gotta love it. I think so. I mean the risk is that you end up resenting it and you know you're not really being fair to yourself, um, and ultimately just compromises your performance.

Matty:

Um, exactly. Yeah, if it's a chore, um, and that's how I sort of operate, if if it feels like a chore, um have a have a little rest. So you love chores though.

Joshie:

You said you love doing housework. You told me once that when you clean the toilet, like you get your head right up on the that's my favourite.

Matty:

That's my favorite.

Joshie:

Well, you welcome around here any time, mate, to clean the toilet. Now, let's get stuck into the unbelievable rundown, and just a reminder that this is where we share highlights, mishaps, little wins, the kind of stuff that Strava simply can't capture. Now, I recently posted a poll about pre-race nutrition.

Matty:

Um, do you happen to have the results on here? Yeah, I do I do, and and quite diverse range of results and quite interesting. Um I wouldn't have thought they went they um would have gone this way, but uh we had 30% of people um uh have water as a pre-race uh nutrition, right? Um 20% electrolytes, 10% gel, okay, um, which I thought would have been higher, um, and 40% something else. Um I always have a gel before a longish run, so anything sort of 12 to 20 plus, I'll have a gel prior. Um yeah, very interesting. And something else. What could the something else be? I wonder.

Joshie:

Uh look, it could be I don't know, peanut butter on toast. You swear by that. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Uh bananas, lollies, coffee. Um it's a real diverse range of what people I I invited DMs from listeners and we actually had quite a few, but the one that made me giggle the most was from sorry, Jeff Marsh, who, by the way, is okay for me to quote him on this. He said, and I do quote, I try to eat and drink enough that he doesn't bonk or cramp during the race, but not so much that he shits himself when he gets up.

Matty:

And he runs very well across um longer distances, so it obviously works for him.

Joshie:

Does now look shitting yourself during a race is a whole other conversation, Maddie, that we'll leave until there's a much lower risk of losing listeners. Now speaking of nutrition, I uh did realise afterwards that I might have missed something in the poll. Now, how this came up in conversation, I don't know. But do you remember when you and I were in Melbourne, you tried to convince me that second only to water, that the product most consumed by humans was concrete. That's right. Now look, Maddie, you know I love you, and you're uh a bit of a trivia messiah, and I would never doubt the veracity of your stats, but are you suggesting that runners are more likely to reach for limestone before lime-flavoured gels?

Matty:

Well, if you're talking Depends here, you can manipulate any data.

Joshie:

No, I have just done that, yes.

Matty:

I I did hear I did hear that, that um the product most consumed by human beings is yeah, uh, water first and then concrete. And when you think about it, like everywhere is concrete. That's true. Everywhere.

Joshie:

You know, because that stayed clearly that stayed with me after we had that conversation. Now funnily enough and I shit you not, after Melbourne Marathon, you know how when you look at Strava, you can have a look at who ran with you at the same route, same events. So I was just browsing through and having a look at other people's activities from the Melbourne Marathon. And there was one dude, and by the way, it was on my mind that stat that you told me, his activity said ate concrete at 30ks, but kept going. So you may be right after all.

Matty:

Oh, that's right. That's right.

Joshie:

Now, look, if you have something that you'd like to contribute to the run b uh to the unbelievable rundown, then send it our way. Now, Maddie, I'm going to take pity on you after your epic fail at Shuemai. So we're going to park that segment for a while with a view to restoring your confidence. So let's see how you go today. We have a different quiz. Today's is a simple fact or fiction.

Matty:

Okay.

Joshie:

So these questions are all about the Melbourne Marathon Festival, which you know was earlier in October. We were both there for the event, so you should be well placed to get three out of three. But let's see how you go. No pressure. And just to let you know, Maddie has to guess if the bit of trivia that I'm reading out is fact or fiction. Feel free to play along at home. Question number one. The world record was broken for the fastest marathon completed in a suit.

Matty:

That's that's fact. That's fact. I saw him interviewed.

Joshie:

That is correct. Now, do you want to have a guess at what his time was?

Matty:

Yeah, it was. I went back and I watched, I think last week I watched the Melbourne Marathon and I saw that guy. Um, it was two hours thirty-eight.

Joshie:

How the hell do you know that? Well, yeah, close. Two hours thirty-eight and twenty seconds, so I can't. Ah, come on.

Matty:

You've got to give me that to know that, jeez.

Joshie:

Far out. Alright, question number two. The men's half marathon was won by Adam Goddard. Fact or fiction?

Matty:

Uh fiction?

Joshie:

That is correct.

Matty:

He came second, I think, didn't he? Adam Goddard?

Joshie:

Not quite. He actually won the 10k.

Matty:

Ah, that's right. Yeah, okay.

Joshie:

Do you want to have a guess? Actually, I don't want to give you an opportunity to guess because it's just actually, you know what? Have a go. At what the time? Yeah, go for glory.

Matty:

Um one hour, four minutes.

Joshie:

For the half?

Matty:

Yeah.

Joshie:

Oh no, sorry, the 10k is what he won.

Matty:

Oh, the 10k. Um, yeah, it was 28 minutes, I think. 28 something. 28.40 for I mean, gosh, dude.

Joshie:

Wow.

Matty:

Well, who who who watches a six-hour replay of the Melbourne Marathon during the week? Me. Who has six hours replay?

Joshie:

Oh, all right. Question number. Question number three, and he's on fire. Two from two. In winning the women's half, Izzy Bat Doyle narrowly missed breaking the course record. Fact or fiction.

Matty:

It's fact.

Joshie:

Ha! It's fiction.

Matty:

Ah, she did break it.

Joshie:

She did. And once again, do you want to have a crack at the time? So Izzy Bat Doyle.

Matty:

She actually did break the course record. One hour twenty-three.

Joshie:

Much quicker than that. An hour eight fifty-five, she said quicker.

Matty:

Yeah, yeah, that was quick. Yeah.

Joshie:

Now, how did you go at home? Feel free to let us know. Today's guest is someone whose love for running has recently been cruelled by injury. She started running in her late teens, but before long she was truly tearing up events, winning the Guzzler 21K in both 2024 and 2025. But after that success came a setback, a rather complex injury that's sidelined her and forced her to rethink her why. A physio by trade, she's working through a process to rebuild both body and mindset. She's also our first ever trail runner on Run Believable with an honest take on safety, recovery, and finding joy again after the path gets rocky. So can we please all welcome Ash O'Lachlan? Ash, thanks so much for joining us. Thanks, Ash.

Ash:

It's good to be here.

Joshie:

Awesome. Now look, we'd usually kick things off with a bit of background about your running origin story, but I'm going to mix things up a little bit. How bad was your knee when you tackled the sunny coast half this year?

Ash:

That's so brutal to ask right off that. Um it's a bit of a tricky question because I've dealt with knee pain for like since I was like 12. So in some ways, I kinda I often get to the point where I I kind of don't notice it. Like I got really good at running through knee pain. Um so look, it wasn't great. Like I um stairs were not my friend um sitting up from a chair or any kind of low surface. Um, I think straight after Sunny Coast, I think my big thing was I went to like dip my toe in the pool, like standing on my right leg, and I like, oh, it almost I almost crumpled. So um so leading into it, it definitely wasn't great. But the funny thing is I I would rarely feel too much pain while I was competing, and that was one of the reasons I loved competing. So I was like, oh, I get to go for a run without noticing too much pain because I don't know, adrenaline's a funny thing, so yeah, yeah.

Joshie:

What can you actually tell us about the injury? Uh I mean, you and I sat down and had a quick coffee before today, and I'll be honest, there's obviously your work as a physiotherapist, you have insights into exactly the nature of the injury. I mean, can you sort of help us understand a little bit more about what you're dealing with?

Ash:

Yeah, so to be honest, half the time I sometimes I tell people I have a meniscus injury because they hear that and they're like, oh, I know what that is, and that's easy, and then it's done. Um, but yeah, it's it's it's a funny injury slash injuries. I've had, like I said, I've had a long, long, long history of knee pain, um, thanks basketball. Um it actually started predominantly with my left knee. I dealt with a like a long-term patella tendinopathy for a really, really long time, and I hadn't quite been able to get on top of it, and it just kind of grumbled along. Um, and I think what ended up happening is I was biasing my right leg so much for so long that I actually ended up with a fairly significant um cartilage defect on that side. Um it's called a chondropathy.

Matty:

So both both knees.

Ash:

Yeah, they're both knees, but like different things, which is really strange, and they're aggravated by different things, which makes rehab really, really fun. Um but yeah, so it's yeah, I've got a a full thickness chondropy um in the cartilage behind my my kneecap. Um which anyone knows who knows a little bit about um tissue injuries and that kind of thing is is cartilage, is really poorly vascularized, which means it doesn't heal well, if at all. Um so it's one of those annoying injuries where it's quite possible the the insult itself will never quite heal, but it's about how much can I compensate such that I can get back to running? Yeah.

Joshie:

So I'm going to declare my lack of knowledge about physiotherapy, but when you talk about poorly vascularized, does that essentially mean that there's not much in the way of sort of blood flow to help promote healing?

Ash:

Yeah, exactly right. Yeah.

Joshie:

Okay. So I didn't realise it was something that you've been dealing with since your youth. I mean, you started running, I think, when you were 17, I think you told me.

Ash:

So long distance, like longer distance running. Like I always grew up doing team sport and things and running in some capacity, but yeah.

Matty:

It's quite ironic though, I think you're a physiotherapist and you've gotten the injuries.

Ash:

I get that all the time.

Joshie:

I mean, being a physio, I mean, how has your knowledge, I guess, influenced or shaped your approach to either training or rehabilitation? I mean, do you find yourself overanalysing the the injury?

Ash:

Yeah, yeah, it is a bit like that. To be honest, it's like um how they say doctors are the worst patients, physios are the worst athletes. Like, I like like I said, I ran through injury for a long time, and I knew that was dumb. Um, I've got the knowledge, but I don't know, when you're in that when you're in that running bubble, um yeah, it it it's weird stopping running kind of seems a bit incomprehensible, even even as someone who has a decent amount of knowledge. But um yeah, no, I definitely self-diagnose and things, but um I also surround myself with people who are a lot smarter than me and a lot better at physio in general. So I I have a physio who I see um who tells me what to do because I won't do what I tell myself.

Matty:

Yeah. That that's very common with runners though, that they push through injury. And I think it's I don't know, you I I've done it before where you sort of say, Yeah, I've got an injury, but it'll be okay if I if I run this way or I do it this way, um, which is not the best option.

Ash:

It's not, and I think that's the kind of frustrating thing about my injury. Like, any injury sucks, obviously, but mine is like I I can run and I could run, and that was what like there are times where I was like, I just wish I had a rolled ankle or like something that physically stopped me from running, but there was a set like rest for you know so many weeks and then it's better and then it's gone. Whereas mine is, you know, I can run, it'll hurt a little bit, but I can run, but it'll gradually kind of get worse over time. Um, so yeah, it's just and so I did. I did run.

Joshie:

Now you've been on the sidelines from what I can see since the Sunny Cost. So we're talking a few months now. Um and from what I know, you've been absolutely smashing the cross training now, which is fantastic. Um, was it easy to flick that switch, that mindset, to focus on something different?

Ash:

Um, good question. Yes and no. Um, I think when you've already got the momentum from consistently running, it's easier to like in time-wise and you know, commitment-wise, it's easier to transition that over to something else. But um it is hard in that nothing is quite like running, and it in my experience, it's it takes more to reach the same kind of effort that you would for running. Like, I could be absolutely destroying myself on the bike. I'm dripping with sweat, and I look at my watch and I'm getting the heart rate that I would on a you know, easy cruisy run.

Matty:

Yeah, yeah.

Ash:

So, yeah, you know.

Matty:

Would you also say like um you you build a community within running or you're part of a community, whether it be park run, whether it be run clubs, whatever it may be, and then transitioning, you kind of like yeah, I think fitness-wise, transitioning might be easier, but you're leaving that community um that you've you've been with for so long, which is very encouraging and very um motivational, um, those communities.

Ash:

Yeah, and that's that's an excellent point, and it's something that I have really struggled with, and I but also really learnt from because when I made the decision that no, I'm gonna commit to a prolonged period of running and try to rebuild, I was terrified that I was gonna, I was like, I'm gonna lose all my friends. All my friends. Yeah. Come on. Which is so silly. And I can honestly say I have never felt more supported than from when I made that decision. The amount of my friends who had like I say running friends, like, yeah, I met them with running, but that doesn't mean they're just running friends. Yeah, have reached out to me and said, Hey, let's go for a walk, let's go for a hike, let's go for a coffee. Um, it's been it's been really lovely. So no, anyone who is sitting on this precipice of injury or making a decision whether to take some time out and that's on their mind, I can say, don't be silly. Your friends are your friends because they like you and not.

Joshie:

That's right. Yeah, yeah. I guess it's one of those things that you haven't really tested until you do take a break from running. It's kind of like having work friends. You don't really know which of those work friends will stick as friends once you finish working with them. And I guess it's the same with with running. Um, so I can understand that anxiety is sort of going into taking a break. You would have thought, you know, are these people truly sticky friends? Will I will those that supportive side of the running community be there whilst I'm on the sidelines? Um, now I I guess what I am keen to explore. I mean, you've certainly been smashing the cross-training. Do you feel as though it's enough of a substitute for you now?

Ash:

Um, enough of a substitute in terms of like like driving me or like fulfilling that love right now.

Joshie:

I mean, you've you've shown incredible commitment and dedication to your running, and it's very hard to then switch that mindset and apply that same kind of discipline to something that's different, especially if it's something that you don't have a natural love for.

Ash:

Yeah, so obviously, like I I love running, and I will hopefully always love running and hopefully be able to do that again. Um yeah, it's an interesting point, and I think that's one another kind of empowering thing that I've noticed um since taking my break is it's not just running that I crave, it's the it's the challenge that I crave, and like as psychotic as that sounds, it's doing something hard, and you know, it's hard and you do it anyway. Um, and the discipline and the routine of it all, I think I crave that more than I crave running itself. And I again I look like an absolute psychopath on the bike sometimes because I'm heart like heaving and smiling because I'm like, oh, that's it, I got it. That's the running feeling.

Joshie:

Like, oh what you're saying before is the amount that you have to put in to get that same feeling is a lot more so that uh input that you have to exert.

Ash:

Yeah, and that's not to say these other disciplines like cycling and things are are easier than running. I'm just not as good at them, and it's a different muscle group that you're working. So like my legs have to work harder in a particular position that they're not used to to get my hand up, like that kind of thing.

Matty:

Running's also it's a process. Um, it's you know, you you train and then you race. Um, and all that all that training goes into that race. So that whole process is I don't know, it's it's something you grab hold of um and go with. And I think that, yeah, that's maybe something. If I went over to something else, that I think I would miss that as well.

Joshie:

Yeah, it's actually a good point because I guess with running, we have a goal, whether it's an event or a race with cross-training, unless it's something like a high rocks, for example, uh it can be a little bit more difficult to have that um to have that discipline. Now, Ash, um let's now go back to the beginning of your running journey. You mentioned that you started running in your late teens. What can you tell us about your motivation for lacing up?

Ash:

Um, like I said, I I always liked running, but more in the context of um kind of team sport, grew up playing basketball, did a little bit of like track and field and cross-country in high school, but nothing serious. Um And if we're being entirely honest, like I'd love to say, oh, I liked running and team sports, and then it seemed like the natural progression, but I think like a lot of males and females in this sport and and um today, I didn't start for the right reasons. Um I grew up, you know, through my teens, again, like a lot of people do, with not a great relationship with food or my body or exercise. So to be honest, I started running because it was a way to burn calories. Um and that's being entirely honest. And like I'd be lying if I said that went away completely. I still have those days where you know, you're you're not, you know, oh, I ate that cake, so I should go for a run, which is not the whole point. Um but that's been the really cool thing about running is slowly it became less about that and more about, oh, I actually quite like this, and I feel really strong doing this. And that's actually one of the reasons, one of the things that drew me to trail running is I mean, every female athlete is amazing, but trail running women for the most part, they're strong and they look amazing and like sorry, not look amazing like yeah, no, no, no. I was like, I want I want big quads for the first time ever. I was like, what because if I have big quads, I can run up that mountain. So like it running in some ways, you know, started as not for the right reasons, then running also helped me to find the right reasons, if that makes sense.

Joshie:

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Um, and I wonder whether or not with that sort of challenge of trail running and climbing mountains, I mean, is there something about you know the the the vulnerability of it as well?

Ash:

Yeah, yeah, I would definitely say that um it's hard and it's not a glamorous sport. And I think that's why running, partly why running friendships and you know, for me, trail running friendships are so you know, you get pretty close with people pretty fast because you're doing really hard things together.

Matty:

Yeah, that's right.

Joshie:

Yeah, totally agree. As I mentioned at the start, Ash, you're quite an accomplished trailrunner, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you won the 21k Guzzler in both 2024 and earlier this year, 2025. Uh what can you tell us about those experiences and in particular backing up this year? I mean, was there part of you that was like, I need to defend that title? Of course there was.

Ash:

I'd be lying if I said there wasn't. Um the first year, the first year to this day, like um sorry, 2024 was to this day one of my favourite ever races. I went in with it, went in with zero expectations. I think I was training for Sunny Crow's full marathon at that time. Um I kind of just went in, give it a crack. I hadn't been doing trail running for too long. And the fact that I won was just like a cherry on top because I genuinely just had the most fantastic day um out on the trails and it was wonderful. Um But yeah, this year, yeah, I I am someone who puts an immense amount of pressure on myself. No one else would have cared if I placed or any of my family or friends, but I yeah, there was a little bit of me that wanted to come back and and win again. So um look, I still had fun, but certainly I think there's you know, you're so focused on doing well that perhaps a little bit of the enjoyment goes out of it. Um so yeah, it was still a fantastic experience, but I was a little bit stressed, and it was a fairly close race as well. I think second was on my tail for most of it, so I was I was working hard on it.

Joshie:

You see, that's something that I don't know, with road races, it's very easy to access published stats and have a look at timing data and see where people finish and even splits, you know, you can see whether someone was coming second at the halfway mark and whether they went on to win. And so I guess what we don't know from those guzzler experiences is you know, were were they close races? Did you come from behind at any point? I mean, uh sometimes it's easier to be um be the hunter than hunted as well.

Ash:

Um yeah, I agree. If I had a if I had a choice and if I raced probably a little bit more smart, I would have hung back behind her a little bit more and kind of chilled along, but I don't know, I I struggle with that. I'm too competitive. Um but yeah, you do get chased, which isn't so fun.

Joshie:

You know, it's interesting. Um obviously it would have been fantastic, and on paper it looks like the same outcome, you know. You you won the 21k Guzzler two years in a row, but the the feelings you would have had both going into it and afterwards sounds like were were completely different. It sounds like you know, one was you felt like it was reward for effort, and the other one was like, you know, more a sense of relief that you that you got the outcome.

Ash:

Yeah, absolutely. Two exact same race but entirely different experiences. Still love them, and like I had some of my friends who came along to sport this year, which was fantastic. I had a friend doing the 50, and like my community had built more this year in terms of like I turn up to trail races now and I actually know people, and that's fun in itself.

Joshie:

Now, look, you've um you've been quite open about trail safety, and um, you know, especially as a as a female, there's certain uh things that you're going to be more mindful of than what us uh men are. I mean, we're we're sort of fortunate that we don't have to consider the same uh set of circumstances that that you do when when you're running. I mean, what can you tell us about your experiences um trail running and in particular um, you know, there were there were some incidents at Mount Cootha, I think was it either this year or last year? Um, I mean, are you happy to I guess share some insights about your experiences there?

Ash:

Yeah, so obviously it's it's a huge, huge topic, and um one that obviously we can't cover in in a single podcast. But um, yeah, women's safety in in running in general and and not just trail running is obviously something that is becoming more spoken about. Um yeah, last year there was the thing that brought it more so to my attention was yeah, the um there was a couple of attacks at at Mount Kutha. Um and that really hit home. Yeah, yeah. Um, that really hit home for me because Mount Kutha was very much my like, you know, quote unquote safe trail. Um well traversed, I know it really well, I could do it with my eyes closed, like I'd go there if I wanted an easy cruisy um run. So when the attack ha attacks happened, it was suddenly like, oh, my safe place has been taken away, and that was really disappointing.

Matty:

That is, yeah, that's horrible. Yeah.

Ash:

And what's more, like track ran this um Trail Running Association of Queensland ran a fantastic event not long after that. Um, all about women's safety, and it was reclaim the trails. It was like a largely women-led run, but you know, men were welcome to join, and we did the Lap at Kutha and it was wonderful and empowering and la-di-da. Um and then the next day I was at Sandgate and doing what I always do, which side note all my friends and family will know is I'm I'm really bad at going out late for run too late to run. Um, so I'd done like a it was after dark, I'd done a run at Sandgate sitting in my car. Um, and a guy pulled up next to me, waited for me to get out of my car, and then because he'd slammed his car door into mine, waited for me to get out to check. Anyway, long story short, he was jerking off in his car.

Matty:

Um no.

Ash:

Which is horrendous and awful. And I swore at him and wanted to cry, and then I just got so angry, and you know, the fact that we'd had this fantastic event the day before, and I was feeling so empowered. And again, Sandate's another place that was kind of like my safer place, it's well lit, it's fairly well traversed. Yeah, and the fact that someone had been able to take like in 10 seconds taken that away infuriating.

Matty:

Yeah. And that's my safe that's one of my safe places as well. I run after Dark Dead all the time. Um, that's horrible. I guess.

Joshie:

The reality is, Maddie, you and I go running there late at night, not for one second having to stop and think about our safety. Yeah. Which I've crossed paths with you from time to time running um I'm sorry um uh late at night. And you know, you're you're always smiling, you look very happy when you run. But it's masking, I guess, a reality of of being a a female runner running late at night.

Matty:

Um looking over your shoulder.

Joshie:

Exactly. You and I don't have to worry about that, Maddie. That's just a r a reality. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um Ash would be like, I I imagine you hear a a noise or someone you think is that a threat. I mean, we we don't have to to stress about that.

Ash:

And that's it. I think um we probably look relatively relaxed and smiley on our runs because unfortunately we're just used to it and it's just something that we kind of don't think about. It's that you know, extra moment we take when we're leaving the house, telling someone where we're going, or like I always have my live track on on my on my watch so that people can see where I am, or and it is, it's that, oh I'm that those minute decisions I'm not gonna run, I'm not gonna I'm gonna run out onto the road instead of putting myself between a car and a fence. Like yeah, it's all those minute decisions that like you said, it's being more talked about that um you know women have to make that that um you guys might not necessarily realise.

Joshie:

Well, you don't see it on you don't see it on Strava, do you? I think that's why it's wonderful that you're prepared to be so open today, Ash, because there's so much that gets lost in the data. Um and it's that anxiety to even just get out there and that decision-making process that you must go through where it's you know, safety first, running second.

Matty:

And um I mean you I sorry, I don't think people realise either that what the incident that happened out there at Sangate, as you said, took away from you your safe place. People don't think like that, they think of it as an incident, but it has taken something from you. I think that's really important to highlight.

Ash:

It has, yeah. And I still I still run at Sandate and I probably still run after dark, to be honest. But I definitely I know exactly where it happened, and I know exactly where I parked, and I think about it whenever I go there. Um yeah, like I said, it's just that it's that little piece that's that's taken, and it's tricky. It's not as much as I would love for us to click our fingers and suddenly all the bad people are gone and women can run at night and it's wonderful and great. Um but we can talk about it and we can make more people aware of it. Um and I think that's the important thing, at least at the moment.

Joshie:

I mean, aside from as men, us being aware of what the reality is as a female runner, I mean, is there anything that you think we can we can do? I know it might be a very open-ended, broad question, but um is there anything that you know male runners can do? I mean, I'll give you an example. I remember reading something many years ago about a woman that went through a horrendous experience over in the States, and one of her suggestions was if you're a male running on a path and you see a female runner heading towards you, um, cross the other side of the street. Or if you're running and there's a female in front of you, um, don't approach slowly, just you know, if you're going quicker, just get past them and then be on your merry way. I mean, do you think that they're little things that can sort of help?

Ash:

Yeah, exactly. And that's what I mean. This is it's such a big issue, and you know, the point isn't to make, you know, for every one bad male runner like male out there, there's a thousand good ones, and the point isn't to make you guys feel bad. Um, but yeah, it is little things like that. It's crossing the road if you see someone run, like if you see a female trying not to linger behind her, um, either running or on bike. I've been followed on bikes before. Um it's sometimes it's just a smile, like a gidae, like you know, maybe lyric there. Um it's checking in on your female running friends, like, do they need someone to run with them after that? Because it can be really hard to fit in training. As someone who works full-time, 7:30 to 4, I commute an hour each day. You can imagine in winter, it's virtually impossible to not run at night. So it's do you need someone to run, you know, fit in your running with? Or um, you know, do you want me to be on your live track so I can see you like running at night? It's it's all those little things. Um, and it's talking about it so that on a wider level other things can be set in place, you know, whether that's infrastructure that um creates a safe place for women to run um at night or in the dark that's well lit or etc. Again, not that that always means that there's no danger, but um things like that. And it's calling things out, like for the most part, like I said, guys are really great. But if you have a mate or something that uh says something inappropriate or calls that girl, tell them that to rack off, like without having that conversation.

Joshie:

You know, Ash, I really appreciate you being so open and transparent in talking about what must be quite an uncomfortable topic. Um, I am happy to shift gears somewhat. Look, you've um you've already achieved so much in your running journey. What would you say sits atop as your proudest moment? Like if you had to say that there was something in the unbelievable hall of fame, what would it be?

Ash:

Oh, that's hard. Because there's yeah, yeah, there's what you're proud of in terms of achievements. Like, yeah, I'm proud of winning the races that I've I've won, but I think it's more the the interpersonal, the the personal challenges that are the biggest. Um one of the things I'm proud of us of is making the decision to stop running, which is sounds insane, but that was one of the hardest decisions I've ever made is to go, yeah, enough's enough. Um, let's let my body heal and try to build back up again. And that was really scary. Um, so that was a big one.

Joshie:

Definitely, yeah. It's a big call. It is a big call to make. I mean, most of us as runners would make uh an uncomfortable yes call to continue rather than a courageous no. Yeah. Um, and especially because of the anxiety, uh, like Matt was saying earlier about community, the the things that get lost, those other things that potentially get lost when you when you do take a break. Um uh not what I was expecting as you're proud of. I think that's fantastic, by the way, to it wasn't what first popped to mind, and I was like, oh actually. Yeah, definitely. Do you dare share anything that sort of sits in like a hall of shame? Like if it ever had any uh sort of running into where it's like that was just an epic fail, or where you've had to pull the pin either mid-race, not showing up for a race, or we've just gone, that was just a disaster.

Ash:

I mean, we've all had our training fails and our race fails and that kind of thing. I think the most hilarious, and this was weird because this actually popped into my head as almost one of my proudest moments too, but it's also kind of hilariously bad, was um UTA in May this year. I did the 50, and it was my first ever Ultra, and I was the biggest gumby ever. Like I had no idea what I was doing. I was on the in the you know, first wave amongst all these sponsored runners, and I was going, what the hell am I doing here? Terrified, didn't like didn't feel especially well, didn't take any salt tablets because I was like, I've never cramped before, I'll be fine. 20ks into a 50k run, or my leg, my leg's about to cramp, and then it just got worse and worse and worse, and I didn't have any anything to help. I was like, I'd read somewhere that if you like apparently like the gagging sensation can help with cramps. I was like running a lot, like shoving my fingers down my throat to try and make myself gag. It was a mess. I I at one point was running um at like I don't know, second half of the race, I was already cramping, was looking so and that's the thing about trailer running, you're focusing so hard on not falling over that you don't always look up, and I ran headburst into a cliff overhang and just out. Thank God there was someone behind me because I like hit my head, stumbled because I was already cramping, my quad cramped, so I like stumbled to the side. My cliff face, and the guy behind me like grabbed my shoulders and was like, You okay? I was like, oh, a bit woozy, but you know, off we go.

Matty:

I'll be another 30k, let's go.

Ash:

It'll be fine. And it was fine for the most part. I definitely didn't feel great after that race, but I finished it, and that's why um it kind of goes in my full shame because I was gumby and didn't know what I was doing, but also I pushed through and and got it done.

Matty:

And I think you're right, like as you said, us, like we've all had our failures. Um I've had plenty of them. And you can you can sit there and beat yourself up for dates. Or one of the things I did with a recent race that that that didn't go right for me was looked at it and went, okay, what can I take from it? What can I learn? And I realized I was it was inexperienced. Oh you know, I there was so much I could take from that race and and add to to future races. So yeah.

Ash:

100%. I was remember sitting on the plane ride home and I was doing my little race debrief, and it was, yeah, so much learning. I was kind of chuckling to myself at all the things I did wrong, but I won't do them again. Well, I probably will do them again, but um I'll get better at them.

Joshie:

Now look, um Ash, before we finish up, what's on the horizon for 2026? And it does running feature at all in your plan.

Ash:

Yeah, and honestly, that's a really hard question, and um one that honestly I don't really know the answer to. Um I think like Matt said before, running is so about routine, and previously I could answer that question, I'd be like, yep, I'm doing this race now, then and then this race and then this race, and you plan your year around running though, we don't realise it. Um so for the first time, honestly, I don't know. Um I I took the commitment to take three months off running. That could be longer, because honestly, like money's still not great, um, to be entirely honest, and that sucks. But you know, I'd rather take more time off and come back better than to come back and still be not good and also be unfit. I'd rather at least have a unfit. Um, yeah, next year is gonna look like maybe some travel, um, keep cross-training, hopefully do some running races and um see what happens.

Joshie:

You know, some people put their intentions out to the universe and sign up to an event and just sort of hope that everything magically comes together. And it's probably the easier decision to make than to go, you know what, I'm actually not going to commit, I'm going to focus on other pursuits and good on you for um for recognizing that that should exist. I've been tempted.

Ash:

I've been tempted.

Joshie:

All those messages come through, either about ballots or um, you know, uh register on this date, mark it in your calendar. It's it's so tempting, isn't it?

Ash:

It is so tempting. I re I literally got one yesterday for um UTMB um for the 50k there, which was one I was really.

Matty:

Is that Mont Blanc?

Ash:

Yeah, I would I I uh um UTA qualified for the 50, so that was always something else I never thought I would do, but I mean we'll see, we'll see. I'm not saying anything. We'll see.

Joshie:

That would be pretty epic though. That would be amazing. Not too we are trying to talk about Yeah, you're like, do it, do it.

Matty:

I know you gotta do Gazler, you gotta defend your title, and that's it. I'll see you at other races.

Ash:

Yeah, yeah. And that's it. There will always be more races, and that's the cool thing about running. We're seeing people like your last guest, like um it was Mark, wasn't it? Yep. Hey, like, I've got so much time, you know. Like, we can run the some of the best run endurance runners ever are in their you know, 30s, 40s, 50s. We got time.

Joshie:

Mark's Mark's 67, I mean, it sort of gives a lot of I know you wouldn't think it. Um and you're quite young, Ash. I mean, obviously you've got uh a long running journey ahead of you. Um and look, before we finish up, uh, is there any one or any organization you you want to sort of shout out? I mean, you you've mentioned that you've done a lot of uh a lot of work in the in the public health space.

Ash:

Um Yeah, yeah, it's another big question. There's so many fantastic organizations and things out there. Um what wasn't mentioned um is that I actually at the moment work in pediatric physio. Um so I work with all the little humans, um, and as unrelated as it probably is to this whole conversation, but the um I do see firsthand the good work that people at the Starlight Foundation do. So if you're ever wondering where to pop some of your money, um, they're a fantastic one. Um they do really great work with all the sick little kiddos. Um, so always willing to give them a shout.

Matty:

Yeah, that's good. That's awesome.

Joshie:

Ash, thanks so much for joining us today. You're truly an inspiration to the running community, and we've had an absolute blast speaking with you today. Thank you so much.

Ash:

Oh, it's been great, guys. Thanks.

Matty:

Yeah, thanks, Ash. Been really good.

Joshie:

Well, don't know about you, Maddie, but I'm truly blown away by Ash's story and her honesty, her messages around safety, um, and gosh, the the things that we take for granted as men.

Matty:

I think it, you know, it covered it covered everything. It covered success within running, it re um it covered injury, it covered having a break and transitioning, but then most importantly, it got the word out there in terms of um uh women's safety within running, um, which um I learned a lot from that, and I think it's imperative that that that improves.

Joshie:

Yeah. And also good on her for having the courage to take a break from running. Do you reckon you could ever do that, Matt?

Matty:

No, mate, never. Never.

Joshie:

Uh look, um well, that's it for today. If you've got a Run Believable story of your own, we'd like to hear it. And if you're interested in being a guest on the show, then hit us up. Finally, this podcast relies on your continued support. So if you take the time to follow, rate, and share this podcast with your running mates, we'd really appreciate it. And we'll see you at the next Run Believable Adventure.