Ep 42: I Spent Years Pretending I Was Okay | Rob Birchall

A pair of running shoes wrapped under the Christmas tree didn't just start Rob Birchall's running journey... they changed the direction of his life.

After losing his father at a young age, serving in the Army, working as an ambulance dispatcher and quietly battling imposter syndrome, Rob spent years believing he had to hide how he really felt.

Running didn't solve every problem.

But it helped him discover something even more important... that being himself was enough.

In this episode:

• Losing his father as a child
• The Christmas present that sparked a love for running
• Working in for the Army and NSW Ambulence
• Living with imposter syndrome
• Why asking for help changed everything
• Learning to finally be comfortable being himself

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Runbelievable is the podcast for every runner. From your first parkrun to your 100th marathon, from walk-run intervals to dabbling in trail running, every runner has a story worth telling. Through honest conversations with runners from all walks of life, Runbelievable explores the challenges, achievements, setbacks, and experiences that connect us through running and shape who we become.

Transcript

Rob 0:06

She goes, Are you all right? And I went, No, I'm actually not. And I'll be forever indebted to her for her because that triggered a lot for me that made me go, Well, I don't have to be what I think people want me to be.

Joshie 0:25

As I sit here today with two randomly blisted codes, I'm reminded of the last and the strange lessons that running teaches us. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Run Believable. I'm your host, Josh Richard, and each week we chat with runners from all walks of life to explore how running has shaped who they've become. Joining me today is Rob Birchall, whose running journey started with what seems like quite a simple Christmas present which little did he know that one decision would go on to change his life. Rob, welcome to Run Believable. Thanks having me, Matt. Now, look, before we dive into your story, I'd actually like to share just a very quick moment from our amazing Run Believable community, which I know you know about. This week's Run Believable moment comes from previous guest and a good friend of mine, Rodney. Now, Rob, this moment, you're gonna love it. It happened just last month, but I've been dying to share it. Rodney was out at a park run when someone recognized him from the Brisbane Marathon Festival and remarked something along the lines of, Oh mate, it was great seeing your daughter Lisa there with you. Now, the only the only problem was Lisa's just a friend of Rodney's and only about, I think, 10 or 15 years younger than him. So understandably and in typical Rodney fashion, you set the record straight and quick as a flash, this person responded with, Oh, well, she looks very young. And so, I know. Anyway, Rodney reassured him that was all in good fun. Um, and I think highly suspects that Lisa will never let him live it down. I think there's nothing better than a bit of banter to make you go a little faster, too. Oh, exactly right. Um, yeah, and look, Rob, the other thing that I love about that story is I think it captures something that makes the running community just so special. I mean, we obviously have goals and we're quite focused, but then we meet some awesome people through running and we share some laughs, and sometimes these laughs become stories or moments that we can tell for years to come.

Rob 2:15

Yeah, absolutely. I did the um the Lansborough, uh it was a 10-year ultra. Um the trail one where it was a 6.4 loop. And um, I remember the first loop, um, this lady had gone head over heels and picked her up and gone, Oh, you're right. She's like, Yeah, yeah, I'm all good. And I've gone, oh, we're gonna have to look out for that. And I kid you not, the next lap, the exact same spot, I've gone face first and she's behind me, and she's gone, oh, come on up you get. And I've gone, oh shit, here we go. And then every lap we would watch and someone would do the same thing in the same spot. Yeah. I mean, those moments stay with you forever, though. I mean, oh yeah, and it's just it's funny that like the the community around it as well. Like, if that happened in the middle of the street, people would just kind of go, oh, whatever. But on trail or anything, you'd run and everyone goes, no, up you get, you'll be right. And you dust yourself off and keep going.

Joshie 3:05

Oh gosh, we we we don't realise the resilience that we build up as runners. And look, um Rodney, thanks so much for sharing that unbelievable moment with us. You are truly the best dad that anyone could wish for. Now, Rob, let's uh wide the clock back to I think it was Christmas, was it 2016? Um Yeah, it was around that time, yeah. What on earth made you request shoes as a Christmas present? Running shoes?

Rob 3:30

Oh, I think it was just I'd wanted to get into running, but I always went, uh you know, when you you start after a while, you get the tingles and the itch, and you start just like you run and you go, This is a horrible feeling, and your whole body's itching, and you go, No, I must be allergic to this, it's no good. And um, I'd wanted to join the army most of my life, and then I'd said to my wife, I said, Look, I'd love a pair of running shoes Christmas. And like I I'm happy with everything I got, but I just said, you know what, that might kick start my journey a bit. And um, we're sitting there at a grandfather's house, and lo and behold, on the morning I've opened them up and going, Oh shit, spare running shoes, now I've got to actually do it. And I thought, now I've got to be a man of my word, I've got to stick to it and give it a go. And um, so I got these shoes that absolutely weren't what I would call running shoes these days, but um got this pair and went, you know what, I'm gonna strap them on and give it a go.

Joshie 4:23

You've described a moment where I was sort of like pictures picturing you opening this Christmas present, you're like, please no, please no, please no. And it's me just opening, going, Oh, there they are. They're they're right in front of me, laughing at me, going, Oh, you know you've got to do it, mate. So can you tell me what life looked like for you before then? Like, what was life like before 2015?

Rob 4:42

I surfed my whole life and bodyboarded, did all those things, loved it. Um, I was doing uni as well. Um, I was doing a media um degree and loved doing that. Um, I was on the camera and on my feet all day anyway, so I kind of didn't see a need to run. I was out and about all the time and um just thought, you know what, let's let's give it a go. But um, yeah, I'd never done any form of running or really anything long distance or even short distance. I just I'd go surfing for a couple hours a day, come home, do my media stuff, and then on my way back to uni.

Joshie 5:17

Hmm. We'll talk a bit more about your running journey shortly. Uh I guess um one thing which I'm keen to explore, I think were you eight or nine years old when you lost your dad? I mean, your childhood wasn't overly easy.

Rob 5:30

Um, so when I was quite young, my dad had passed away from cancer, um, four different shades of it just riddled his body in the end. And um geez. It was something that to me I never saw it as anything big because it just was my childhood. Um it mum was always phenomenal that um she never made it a a big thing. It was just look, yep, that's happened, but we we're resilient and we build on, and me and my sisters still felt like we had normal childhoods and God love her for that. But yeah, it was we didn't see it as a big um it was a big life-changing moment, but it was more of all right, you're still kids, you still got stuff to do, and we we keep going with life, we love each other and we keep going.

Joshie 6:13

Hmm. I think you said that well, it's a couple of things I want wanted to explore. I think you said that your mum repartnered when you were, I think, 14 or 15, was it something like that?

Rob 6:23

Yeah, it was somewhere near the 13 mark. Um my he's now my adopted dad, and I just called him dad because he's been there my as long as anyone anyway. And he um yeah, she re remarried a bit later in life, but um he came on the picture around 13 sort of thing, and um made he's been brilliant. Yeah.

Joshie 6:41

I think you said though, uh like um you know he once he became a feature of your life, you you felt like you had, you know, rail a male role model, which is fantastic. But in terms of what you went through with losing your dad, I think you said around the age of 17 or 18 it kind of just hit you.

Rob 6:56

Yeah, it was it was something that so uh my my dad Pete, who um is my um adopted dad, he um he became the role model straight away. He picked us up and just went, these are my kids and mate, I'll be forever in debt to him for it. And um I but I'd always kind of pushed back. Um Adam was my um birth father. And I always kind of pushed it back and it sort of buried it down and just moved on with life and went, no, I've got stuff to do, things to do. And um, when I was about 17, 18, I noticed it popped up a bit more in life, and it was something that seems to trouble me a bit in internally, and I was always thinking, no, you you don't talk about it, people don't want to hear it. Like I had a sort of thing that you you've got to be someone that people want to have a conversation with, someone that people want to talk to. And yeah, I I kind of just buried it until around then it started popping up a bit more.

Joshie 7:51

Okay. So can you remember what it was that made you start talking more about? Like, was there a trigger, a milestone, an event of any sort?

Rob 7:57

I I think that it was Oh, I've had some some pretty awesome mates um throughout the years, and there's a heap of likes that I went through school with, and um uh many people I've met um through work and things like. And it was probably a little probably a little later from that that I'd met a few blokes and started not being able to hold in and going, well, there there's something churning in me, and I'm I'm not I can't hold it any longer. Um and my biggest thing was I I I spoke to uh my mum and my sister, um, were the first two people that I kind of went, Look, I I'm not okay. I'm I'm not not able to focus, I'm not able to. There were some days all you want to do is just lay on the ground and you just go, I can't do this. And um I got chatting with mum and my sister, and my sister went, Hey, I'm kind of feeling the same as well. And I went, Well, if this, if two of us that have gone through it are feeling this, maybe there's others. And I then got chatting with a couple of mates, same thing, just one day I just wanted to have that uncomfortable conversation. And I stuck my hand up and said, Hey, I I'm not coping with things. Am I the only one feeling this? And nearly every one of my mates goes, No, no, I felt yeah.

Joshie 9:06

Rob, that's pretty courageous of you. I mean, to be what late teens or 20 at the time, um to put your hand up, especially as a young male, to put your hand up and say, I'm not okay. I mean, were you the first of your group of friends that did that?

Rob 9:21

I think a lot of my mates at school were we always spoke about little bits and pieces, but it was kind of a I wouldn't say a taboo, but it wasn't really something we all spoke about. But behind closed doors, where there'd be one or two of us kind of chatting, we'd all kind of go, well, something's not right here. And I got to the point of going, well, this isn't how people should feel. This isn't um this can't be normal life. This can't be every day of feeling this way. Like this isn't how people are supposed to exist.

Joshie 9:51

And so obviously then what so you went through your 20s and I mean, can you tell me what life was like then leading up to that fateful Christ Christmas day?

Rob 10:00

Yeah, so I I um just bodyboarded every day, surfed every day, loved it. But um I always kept myself busy. I always wanted to have something under my belt, something happening, or I was doing um a lot of tours with photography and things, and um I'd be off for a couple of weeks and then come back, and then I'd be organising different ones in Sydney and photographing all sorts of stuff, trying to do photo shoots and never really had a free moment to think. Just went, nut. You always gotta be busy, you always gotta be on. And then obviously I'd I'd met my wife, and um, same thing, I was still surfing and everything like that. And it was probably only about a year in, and we'd gone, and I'd put on a bit more weight and things because I wasn't surfing as much, and as you normally do, your teenage body starts to kind of go, you can't eat that much macca's anymore, you can't really keep going down that road that you had and uh kind of enjoying it all, and then went, Oh, hang on. And I'd I'd put on a bit and thought, you know what, I I think running would be good. And my mum was a a runner in high school and she was bloody brilliant at it, but I'd just never taken on that trait and went, you know what, it could be all right. And um, I'd said to my wife, I said, Look, I I kind of think running might help me a little bit. And um, she goes, Oh, well, is that something you'd like for Christmas? I went, Yeah, yeah, you know what? Running shoes would be good. And that was probably August, September, and I went, Yeah, yeah, no worries, and then forgot about it, kind of pushed it to the back. And um, yeah, as I said, you get to Christmas day and there's a box, and you go, Man, that present looks suspiciously like a shoe box. There you go, I'm gonna have to stick to my word here. And lo and behold, bang, there they are, the added ass, and they were shoes that absolutely were not meant for running, but they said runners on them, and I went, I'm gonna, I've gotta do it, I've got to stick to it.

Joshie 11:46

So talk me through that first run. You and I caught up a few weeks ago, and I think you said it was about 300 metres or thereabouts, and you were completely gassed. I mean, oh yeah.

Rob 11:56

I I laced them up and went, and we're in Pacific Pines in Queensland, and um it was super hot around Christmas. This background I lived in New South Wales, and I'm going, terrible time to start running for one. I'm gonna sweat like no tomorrow. And I went, no, I've I've I've said I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do it. So I've gone out and I thought what I can do is I can go straight down the hill and I'll feel way better about myself because I'll run fast. Yeah and make even going downhill. I've ran 200 metres downhill and pace is going, going, I'm feel good, feel good, and then all of a sudden I started getting gas and I've gone, oh, I'm going downhill, gassed. Like, what is it gonna be like going back into the thing? And I've got 300 metres and I'm at the bottom, and I reckon I'm dry heaven and I'm going, where's the closest bubbler? Where can I stop? I'm gonna have to call my wife and say, come down the corner and pick me up. But I just stopped, breathes, and went, nah, you you said you're gonna do it, get a kilometre down. And I walked a bit, ran a bit, walked a bit, and went, oh my god, that was the hardest thing I've ever done.

Joshie 12:54

You know, most people, and my experience is similar, that first run, you just feel absolutely terrible. What is it that kept you coming back after that?

Rob 13:02

Oh I I had a mentality of just you've said you're gonna do it. If you tell someone that you you honestly mean, look, that's something I want to do. Like, even if you don't like it, you don't have to be comfortable to go and do it. And I think getting comfortable in the uncomfortable was something that I'd heard and thought, you know what, that's to me that resonates. Um and I spoke to someone, this is way before Chat GPT and everything, and I spoke to a mate and I said, Oh my god, I thought I was gonna die. I ran. And he goes, mate, get through that first five minutes, get rid of the itching and tingling, and you got it, your heart rate will slow down. And this is the first I'd ever heard of a heart rate. I didn't even have a watch to run with. And I've gone, all right. And mentally I've gone, okay, your heart rate's gonna slow down, you'll be right. And I started pushing past that barrier, and I've gone, oh, what felt like was gonna end my life about a week ago, now puts me at the point of going, well, maybe there's a little bit more in the tank. Maybe there's there's 350 meters you can do next week, and just sort of pushing past the barrier. I I wanted to know what I was sort of capable of, and yeah.

Joshie 14:09

So was that around the time that you started looking at a career change as well? I mean, you look at, I think was it defense around that time or a couple of years after that? Yeah. So talk me through what happened then.

Rob 14:20

So I was probably a year before uh when I first asked for the shoes, I started thinking I wanted a career change. I was jumping hospitality jobs and never really held a job for more than a year and just kind of went bounced back and forth, back and forth between uni. And I went, I kind of want to do something different. I'd finished uni and went, well, where do I go to now? And um unfortunately, my I was running my own media business, which was going well. Okay, but it just wasn't something that I um I'd started losing my heart towards and went, well, this isn't as much as what I want. Now I'd wanted to be in the army since I was a kid. I'd spoken to mum about it for years, and she's always told me ever since a kid, you always mentioned it, and when I was in school, I mentioned it. And I thought now's probably the time. And that was probably when I was about 26, I think, or 25, somewhere around there. And um my wife hates it, but I I'd applied without telling anyone. And I went, I'll give this a go and just see what it says. And the problem was I was go and do it and ask for forgiveness afterwards because you're not gonna get it, mate. Like you you can't run 350 metres, but I went, no, I'm gonna try it. And they told me about the PFA, which is the um fitness assessment and things. Oh yeah.

Joshie 15:35

It's like a 2.3, is it 2.4k run or something for?

Rob 15:38

Yeah, in yeah, back then I think it was like 13 minutes was a cutoff and I was like, all right, I'm gonna work towards that. Yep. And um, I just started running and running and went and did the interview and they said, Yep, you're good to go. And um, it was only for reserves, and I went, Yeah, I'll give it a go. And um actually ended up uh getting selected to be a um uh commissioned officer and yeah, went from there. And unfortunately had to tell my wife, hey, look, it's actually happened and um I've I've gotten into the army. Was she supportive at the time? Uh, she's always been supportive. She was a bit shocked. That's the the nicest way I can put that, that she was like, What are you doing? Because I'd proposed by this point as well. So I um and we we were having the wedding in March, and I'd gone in that was around January, February, I think I went in. Yep. Now the problem was when I was doing weddings and things, it was all well and good. Like you'd get a bit of money and things like that. And then through my jobs, I wasn't really making enough to support the full wedding. And the my part of the brain was, hey, you can go to the army and go do training for a couple of months and get enough for the wedding. And I saw it that way, and then the logistical side and the reasonable side of my wife was going, That's the worst decision you've made. And it was just, but she's never once not been supportive. She's doesn't matter what I choose to do, she's always gone, you know what, go and do it. Get give it a go. And um, yeah, I went to Kapuka and went and did my training, and I came out just before Christmas, and we got a bit of extra money towards the wedding, and um, yeah, so it was a hell of a a journey and then went on from there.

Joshie 17:19

You know, you and I very briefly met at the Run the River event back in May this year. Yeah. And I think it was in the weeks afterwards or thereabouts, we actually featured a guest called Libby that spoke a lot about something called imposter syndrome, and I think that really struck a chord with you. Now, you worked hard to go get through so much in your life. You know, you lost your father when you were quite young, you started a media business, you also took up running as a 20-something year old and worked really hard to meet the ADF's requirements, but you said to me that something didn't sit quite right in terms of achievement and not feeling that you were deserving. Um where do you think that's come from?

Rob 17:59

Look, I I wish I knew where it came from, but it's something that's sat inside of me for a long time. So when I was younger, I always felt I had to be uh the bloke coming up with jokes, the the bloke that people would come and talk to, or you had to be funny, you had to be something. And not a bit of a lot of people. There's still good traits, by the way. There's still awesome traits. Oh, yeah, none of them are bad. But it was I I would mask no matter what I actually felt with just being a bit of fun for people, or um Okay. I I tried to always mask something that I was actually feeling, and um it wasn't until maybe like three years ago I was talking with my wife, and she she'd approached me with a question, I can't remember what it was, and she was like, Oh, is there something that you're feeling? And it it ticked me, went bang. And I went, Yeah, I I I'm hiding what I actually feel. And I I've never had someone actually stop and ask me a question and go, that hits so hard. And she goes, Are you alright? And I went, No, I'm actually not. And I'll be forever indebted to her for it because that triggered a lot for me that made me go, Well I don't have to be what I think people want me to be. And I I I felt like I was an imposter in everything I was doing. Of if I said something, oh, how are people gonna take that? How how would that have been perceived? And how would it how would someone think of me after that? And it was a constant sort of reoccurrence of going, am I enough for this conversation? Am I enough for this job? Am I enough for my relationships and my family? And I never felt like I was up to a standard of what I believed I should have been.

Joshie 19:48

That's a pretty tough thing to work through, especially because you actually had achieved so much. So it's not as if you're sitting there in life just cruising, you'd actually been quite considered and worked quite hard to achieve what you had. But for for that to it's almost feel like you're not living up to your own set of expectations must be a very difficult realization.

Rob 20:07

Yeah, and and I I look, don't get me wrong, I I love myself now for who I am, and I I'm proud of who I am. I'm proud of my family and my my partner and the everything in between. But I go, you know what, like I I deserve what I have at the moment. But back there, I'd never felt like I deserved a thing. I was very, no, someone else should have gotten this, someone else has worked harder, someone else has done something more. And I found it really I I don't know what the word is, but uh I I was very reclusive and I would hold back everything that was in me because I didn't believe that it was for me. Uh whether it was going on tour and doing photographs with fans or whether it was meeting my wife or um even anything, but buying my house that we did recently, and I just went, I'm I'm not meant to be here. This isn't what was meant for me, like this is someone else should have it. And it there's all there was always a voice in the back of me going, Are you sure this was meant for you? Like, are you sure that all the things you've worked for are meant for you? Like maybe someone else should have, or you didn't deserve to get to here. And there was always a dark cloud that hung about in the back of my head for that.

Joshie 21:22

I find that really fascinating, uh, Rob. Um and from the very little bit I know people that live with imposter syndrome, they constantly immerse themselves in challenging situations and challenging environments because they think if I can live up to this standard, then maybe I'll be happy and I'll feel a sense of self-worth. I mean, after the ADF, you I think switched, was it the New South Wales Ambulance Service that you worked for as an emergency call taker? Those aren't easy environments. I mean, what can you tell me about how those roles, in particular, the second one, um, affected your mental health?

Rob 21:54

So, God love New South Wales ambulance. The people I worked with were brilliant, and I I loved that job. Even though you're you're helping people, it is by far the most challenging. Thing I've ever done. The things you hear on that line, and the things you hear as an emergency call taker, as an emergency dispatcher, as someone that audits the calls, anything in between is just absolutely wild. It can be something as small as I got bit by a goldfish, what do I do? Or you're assisting someone in the worst day of their life when someone's passed away, or they've seen something traumatic. And um it was something that you're doing 12-hour shifts minimum, and um you kind of when you're driving home, you your mind races a lot and you start to go, your fight or flight, and adrenaline in your body is going at all times. Uh, there's never a moment that you get to really stop and go, far out. That was that was pretty full on. And the the people in the room with you are always brilliant. Um I've never had a bad time, but you can turn around and take that headset off, put yourself on hold and go, look, that was a bit full on for me. And the the community of people in that room that help is absolutely incredible.

Joshie 23:13

What about in terms of, I guess, um professional support? I mean, was there much offered?

Rob 23:18

Um, it it was always we were told it was there. Um, and the biggest thing was that you'd you'd call a number, and the one time there's a few times that I did, sorry, I'd called and I spoke with someone, I said, Look, I've taken a really hard call. Um, it was a pretty traumatic thing and not great to listen to. And went for a while and I called up and said, Hey, I need to talk to someone. I'm not feeling mentally good about this. And they've gone, yeah, no worries, we've booked in in three weeks' time. And I've gone, hang on, what do you mean? And they said, No, no, we'll someone will call you back in three weeks and they'll have a chat to you. I said, I don't need to talk in three weeks. Like, I I have something in me now that I need to talk about. Like, I'm just pretty bad, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. And it was, look, I know that the system might be filled up, there might be a lot of people calling, but it was something that I went, mate, this is not enough for me. And that's when I started to kind of not talk about things and tried not to take it home and tried not to talk to too many people about, and it just it built that bubble again that sits inside of you going something's wrong here. So, what did life look like for you during uh those years? Well, for me, I'd uh when I'd moved across to dispatch, because there's the people that take the calls and the people that dispatch the ambulances and they work cohesively in between. Okay. And we had a group of people that they wanted to do the Oxfam walk, the 55k. And um I've gone, oh, I'd love to, like let's let's give it a go. So I practiced a lot of walking and went, oh you know what, like I I kind of want to go faster. So I started doing a few jogs and things, but what I'd found beforehand was that I I was always all consumed in the job. Um, there was never a moment of life that you you weren't thinking about a case, you weren't thinking about what was going on back in the room. And you always all your friends will still text you and go, oh, this job's going on, or this is happening at the moment. Like it's um, I've just had a bad case, and you're you're kind of a counselor for other people without counseling yourself. And I found that really hard that I tried to be there for everyone and go, look, you need a chat, let's talk. Um wanted to be all inclusive for people, and um yeah, it was it was pretty difficult, and you just kept pushing stuff down, and there's a lot of stuff that you can't talk about there because it's confidential and it's just very hard to to hold inside. But um luckily, yeah, we had a couple of people that wanted to do the the 55 walk, and um yeah, that that helped me kind of get my mind off things a little bit, and I went, Oh, this is this is good on days off or before night shift, go out and do a bit of a walk or a 20k something like that. And um then all of a sudden running came in, yeah.

Joshie 26:01

So, how important was running then when it became more of a feature in your life? I mean, you and I caught up a few weeks ago, as I mentioned before, and I think you spoke about no matter how challenging a day was physically or mentally, that you would still find the motivation to get out there and go for a run.

Rob 26:18

Yeah, so it was definitely like um during summer, it's when you got a heap of light, like you get home and I'd have like an hour drive home, and once I get back, like you'd be down in the dumps, and I I knew plenty of people that had turned to alcohol or something when they get home, or they just go, no, I'm just slumping on the couch. And I I'd speak to my wife and I'd say to her, like, I'm not I'm not feeling good, like it's been a real hard day. Yep. And I started going, why don't I get back to a bit of a bit of running? I just did it in defence and loved it and went, well, you know what, let's I maybe I can do another 5k. And I started just especially during summer, I went, Well, I've got some time and throw the ball for the dog, and then I said to her, I'm gonna put on some shoes and give it a go. And um, I'd run down to the local dam and um or like pond and boat ramp and run back, and I'd go, Yeah, it's actually a good bit of clarity for me. Like I I felt like there was a a release sort of thing that I was able to, when I'm running, I'm going, holy hell, when will it stop? Yeah. Rather than thinking about a call. And I'd go, oh, that that wasn't too bad. Like I and then it started getting a bit easier and a bit easier, and it just sort of became a habit once again that I'd sort of go, well, if you've had a bad day, you go for a run. And you had a good day, go for a run too. It doesn't have to be something that's associated with bad. And it became that thing that I just went, well, this to me makes me feel good. Whether it's it's not alcohol, it's not junk food, it's not anything else under the sun, I can go and do something just around the streets, and I'm starting to feel better. And I went, Well, if my body's telling me that, it must be what it is for me.

Joshie 27:54

Yeah. Did you notice it change how you showed up in life as well as a partner, as a worker?

Rob 28:00

No, absolutely, because I I did what a lot of blokes had done, especially in the army. I'd heard about David Goggins and went, oh, this is this is full on. This is you gotta show up every day, you've got to do that. And we did that in the army for each other. Like you have your platoon and things like that, you you show up for anyone that's in there with you. And then I started going, well, you know what, I'm gonna show up for myself a bit more. And when I started doing that, I noticed that I it didn't matter what time of day it was, like if I was um, if I had a six to six thirty shift, like 12 and a half hours, I'd go, right, well, I'm going up and I'm waking up at 3.30, driving into work, run and do 5 to 10k, go to work for a 12 and a half and come home okay. And I found that it gave me more clarity through the day, like as well. It was, I don't know what it is as a chemical, whatever running does for me, but it made me feel like I could sort things out, like I could get onto the day, and I I felt like I'd achieved something. And I felt that whether it's as small as in the army, you taught first thing you do, you strip your bed, you make it again. And you you've achieved something that day. And that's what running flunder became for me is I didn't have to do it at the start, I didn't have to do it in the middle or at the end. But if I told myself I was gonna do it, like I was gonna show up with those shoes, I'd go out and get a bit of a run, and my mind for some reason would set me at ease.

Joshie 29:24

You know, Rob, you seem like you're in you're in a pretty good place now. I know that's a journey. Um I know you love running alone. You've told me that I think 95% of your runs are alone, which is fine. But you're also becoming quite connected with community now. Um I know you're a member of um Trail Snails who are doing some brilliant work in the local running community. Uh can you tell me what it is that you enjoy about being part of a running community?

Rob 29:49

So, yeah, as I said, like I do probably 90-95% of my runs alone. It used to be because I was out of breath, I couldn't talk. And now it's more now it's more of a bad company. Yeah, and you're trying to talk and you're doing one-word sentences and you're just going, this isn't working, let's just keep running. Yeah. And um, but no, when I first moved up here to the Sunshine Coast, I was quite lucky that I'd found Trail Snails when I was watching um Phil Gore. Um, I'd seen when he was doing his backyards and I thought, wow, that's really cool. And Googled it and thought, oh, these guys are kind of close by. And I got speaking to Duncan and I'd bought a shirt and he goes, Oh, I'll come drop it off. And I thought, oh, okay, look, no worries. And met him at the front of the workplace and I've met many people, but it was just an instant, hey, how you doing? Shake hands, have a chat. I thought, these are people that you you meet through running it, these are people that are out there. And I went, Man, I'm gonna wear this shirt like no tomorrow. I'm gonna wear it until it falls apart, like just because the interaction I'd had with people and went, oh, that's really cool. And um I'd gotten to know those blokes, still have a chat with them here and there, and um a couple of park runs here and there, but it's I started realizing, okay, this doesn't have to be a you lock in, you're in your own brain, you're the macho sort of thing of the entire um mentality of it's you against the world. Like you can run and just have a good time with people. You don't have to talk, you don't have to do anything. But I started noticing that funnily enough, whenever I wore that Travis Nales shirt, someone would yell out and that either a laugh or say, Oh, and yell, give me a thumbs up. And I've gone, man, what what a shirt can do for people just seeing? Like it's even people not running, like I'd run home from work and I'd run down um from North Lakes to uh Redcliffe. And I just found that that was a good track for me. It was about 16k. But as soon as I was on Diamond Jubilee Way, I kid you not, every time on that road, someone would yell at either run forest run, go the snails, or they'd just give me a thumbs up. And I thought, you know what? How good is that? That is amazing. I mean, I loved it, and it'd put a smile on my face and I'd go, I don't even know these people from a bar, so they're just giving me a thumbs up because I'm a bloke in a bright orange shirt, having a good time on the side of the road.

Joshie 32:12

Well, that's how I um ran into you. I was like at the Run the River event, and I went, Yeah, that guy's a trail snail. So I went up and had a chat to you, and you were very warm, very welcoming. In fact, I wouldn't mind quickly returning to that event. Um, I think was it the 15 hour that you'd signed up to do basically run as many Ks as you can in was it 15 or 12 hours? Yeah, 15 hours.

Rob 32:33

So I'd um I was looking for another trail run and I I'd spoken to the guys that run the river and I went, they've got a pretty good like I I want to challenge myself and be able to I'd done 30s and 50s and went, you know what? I wonder how far I could actually get in 15 hours. Yep. And I've gone, well, that's a perfect event. It's a it's a loop, and yeah, no worries, I'll jump onto that. And um I just started running home from work each day and I was trying to get the kilometres up and I was up to about 30, 40 pretty, pretty well, and going, yeah, I'm I'm ready for this to give it a go. And um I remember getting to get to the event and I'd seen you and went, Oh, I I know that bloke. I said I listened to that podcast to my to my wife, and I've thought, how cool is that? And then you came over and I thought, mate, again, it's it's not the random person in the car this time, it's just someone coming over going, How you doing? And I'd spoken to I didn't even catch anyone's name at the event half the way. And um, all these people were just going, How you doing? Like, what do you got? What's your what are you aiming for? And I was like, I'm actually talking to people about this. And sorry, you might hear the goats going off in the back of the room. Yeah, it is some goats, yeah and uh Maple's Maple's yelling at me for something, she wants the fence, and uh but um yeah, I just I I got to meet a lot of people, didn't even have to know their name, and it reminded me a lot of when I was a kid in the surf. Yeah, you you don't know anyone's name out there half the time, but you see them, you know their face, you go, How are you going? And that's what the running community is for me now, is it takes me a bit back to being a kid and it's just people saying g'day and you don't have to have a full interaction, you can have a four-hour conversation if you want. But I I found at that event that people are just there, that they're doing the same thing, they're just as scared as you are of that event, and they're probably thinking, Oh, I shouldn't be here. I don't, I wonder who's gonna win, I wonder who's gonna do that. But there are so many people that are just there going, I'm just here for a good time. Like, why not?

Joshie 34:31

And we all have different goals and we also have different benefits that we we take away. I mean, I walked away from that night feeling enriched with having just briefly met some incredible people. I mean, it's you know, given us this opportunity to um to hear your journey. Um, I think you made it to about, was it 41ks that night and something didn't fit quite feel right? I think your calf started to give you a bit of grief. Um how how difficult was it for you to pull the pin that night?

Rob 34:57

Going from having a mentality of you must finish, whatever you're doing, you have to finish from start to end, doesn't matter what it is. To then being able to go, you have to accept that you're hitting your first DNF, and you have to accept that you're buying. Oh, first DNF? Yeah. So it was during the race, and it's odd because the week before I'd tried an old pair of shoes on. And if there's one bit of advice for anyone, don't ever go back to old shoes when you've been running on others for months. It's exactly leave them in the closet, put them in the bin, put them somewhere, and stick to what you know. And I should have done that, but I just went, you know what? They they're always comfortable, let's throw them on and give it a go. And I'd done a bit of a niggle to my calf, and I went, Oh, that's that's not great. But I thought it's all right. And I was a week out and went, I was probably about a week and a half, and I said, take a week off, let everything heal. And I went, yep, no worries. And I did a few pogos a few days beforehand and went, I can still feel it, but it's alright. And then I'd um I got to the event and I went, it's still there, but I'll I'll just see how it goes. And my mentality originally was I remember before I started the race, I'm going, you'll finish, you you have to get through it. There's no second option here. And I was talking to my wife, and she goes, she knew about the the calf and went, all you can do is get out there and give it a go. What when your body tells you, you'll stop. And I went, no, because I'm stubborn at best. I was like, no, no, no, no way. I'm I'll just strap it, I'll do something. And um, I felt it probably 10k in, it's only two loops. Okay. But funnily enough, taken off from the start line, I got chatting to a couple of people and just talked. I've never ran and just talked, but I was able to, and it took my mind off, and I went, oh, this is pretty good. And I met a few people and learned about their goals and what they're doing. And I came around to the second loop. My nutrition was perfect. My heart rate was in the low 40s and a low 140s, not 40s. And um, everything was going perfect. And I've gone, I've never ran like this, and I was on target for about 110k. And I'm going, this feels really, really good. Um then about two hours in, I went, oh, something's there. And I've pulled down the calf socks, put a bit of tape around, and went, oh, if I tape it up, it'll feel all right. And I'd put wrapper gel, everything on it, and just went, let's lather it up with whatever I've got. Yeah, nothing worked. And I got to about 30k, and it was probably like 10 o'clock at night. And I'd said to my wife, I go, my my leg's starting to go. And she goes, Well, because she was staying in a hotel just up the road. And she said, I'm gonna go back in probably another hour, just let me know how you're going and I'll I'll see. And I said, Look, I'm gonna do one more lap and I'll I'll let you know how I feel after that. I've got to have a conversation with myself. She goes, Yep, you go do what you gotta do. And while running, I started going, first of all, who are you proving anything to? And I went to I've gone, well, I'm proving it to me. I went, Well, why the hell am I arguing with myself if my body is telling me to stop? And I was through the whole thing of going, oh well, I've told people I'm doing this race, I've said I'm doing that, I said I'm gonna hit 100k. And I went, What does it bloody matter? Like none of that matters. It's sometimes your body just goes, nope, that's it. And I was hobbling by this point trying to run. The leg had gone half numb, and I just went, This isn't working for me. And it's a bit of pill to swallow for your first ANF, but I think it's the smartest thing you can ever go through. Did you beat yourself up for long? Yeah, probably about two, three days. Yeah. I started just going, mate, you what do you do? And I was down in the dumps and I said to my wife, I'm gonna allow myself one to two days, and that's when I can feel sorry for myself. I said after that, it's recovery.

Joshie 38:57

I mean, you're you're allowed to immerse yourself in feeling shit because it is a difficult, like you say, pill to swallow. I mean, you set your sights on getting 100 Ks in 15 hours. I mean, can you tell me how Rob 10 years ago would have gone in a situation like that?

Rob 39:12

Oh mate, I would have just kept going until I collapsed. I just wouldn't have stopped and I would have been like, it's either you take me off in a stretcher or I'm not coming off. Um it's some people call it headstrong at times, and I I found that that wasn't the mentality for me. Got me in trouble, it got me in got me injuries that set me out for six months, and it was just one of those things that I everything had gone right leading up until the week before. Everything had gone perfect, and I had to kind of listen, and it was the smartest thing I've ever done for myself. And that's exactly what it was was it was for me, it wasn't for anyone else, it wasn't for the Strava likes, wasn't for anything, it was simply my brain told my body, mate, you've gotta you've got to calm down here, you're gonna really hurt yourself.

Joshie 39:57

I think it's incredible, Rob, to have been able to work so hard on that mentality shift. I mean, especially with what you went through during your childhood and teenage years and and being immersed in an environment like defense as well, where it basically teaches you to just persist at all costs. And that cost could be either a mental one or it could be a physical one or both. And so to be able to break that is quite is quite admirable.

Rob 40:25

Yeah, I think that it was um for so long, I was we're we're told throughout you can go back as far as you want in history books, and you can see that the mentality is that uh as a a man or even just people in general, it's nah, you suck it up, you keep going. Like I know plenty of women that have are so headstrong that it's ridiculous, and you go, How the hell do you do that? There's a lot of it was always you were told to push it all aside and just get the job done. And I don't I don't think that that's really worked for it worked for me for a while, but now I'm trying to be a lot more conscious of me as a person, me as someone that feels is the biggest thing. Like it everyone's got emotion, everyone feels something, and I think you need to listen to that at times, and you you need to be able to switch off that hey, I'm uh going and doing this and it's macho, it's this, it's that. You gotta be able to kind of go, well, as a person, not as anything else, I for me, my body is telling me I'm not gonna do that, or I'm gonna cause more struggle, or my stomach's just churning and it's saying this is not a good decision. And you start to kind of switch that intuition and go, you know what? That's that's it. And that's the approach I've tried to take to whether it's races or whether it's just slowing down or life in general now, it's a matter of going, well, you know what? That's not going to benefit me, and it's gonna be at my own detriment rather than and it's gonna be at someone else's positive, but my negative, not for me.

Joshie 42:00

It's very, very sensible of you. Um I wouldn't mind talking about something else um just briefly. I mean, you're yeah, you're quite you're quite heavily um inked. It's difficult to see on camera, but you've got your fair share of tattoos. But there's one tattoo in particular you and I spoke about that I think really talks of um connection. I think you said it says made it. Is that correct? Yeah, yeah, tell me about your inspiration for that.

Rob 42:23

Yeah, so uh one of my good friends, Lindsay, she's a tattoo artist down on the Central Coast, and um I'd photographed her wedding, and um she goes, Oh, we'll do some cash, and I said, Well, let's do some tattooing as well. She goes, Yeah, yeah, that'd be perfect. And one day I said, Well, I'll come in and we'd done a couple of little bits and a couple of fillers. And I'd after a lot of because I'd gone through a lot of depression and things when I was younger and a lot of um PTSD as I was older, and it's it's been a bit of a don't get me wrong, I've loved the ride, the that's the reason roller coasters are fun, is they got ups and downs. And um one thing was I I loved being able to get at the end of the day and go far out. Like you you got here, man. Like you you had a top day, look how good it is, or you'd go, mate. I've I've had a day that I just wanted to crawl under a table and that was it. But no matter what had happened, I went, no, I've still made it. I've I've made it to today. Before I'd gone into the army or anything, I'd gotten it. And it just got the words made it across um the top of my pack. Yep. And it's funny that there's been times I've looked at it and gone, what the hell did you get that for? And yeah, when you look at it as a day-to-day thing, I go, oh, bloody hell, there it is. But then when I've achieved things, it might seem stupid to some people, but it's right above my heart that my birth dad may not have been able to do anything like this. He he hadn't made it this far. He passed when he was my age now. Wow. So I I took that quite heavily when I was younger that maybe I might not ever make it past that age or to 32, 33. And now I'm here going, man, look what I'm doing. I've I've made it. I've made it to here, to today. And I sometimes I'll beat my chest to it just. As an ode to me, it's not to anyone else. It's just man, you you made it. You you set a goal, or not even that, but you made it through the day. You opened your eyes, you got through it, you got it done. And it's for a tattoo that looks a bit out of place, a bit silly, like mate, it's one of my my favourites that it's it's for me only. And it's for me to if if I've done something that I'm proud of and I'm happy and I I I touch the tattoo every now and again, I just give myself a bit of that. And I don't know what it does, but it's psychologically, it's one of the only things in life I have for for just me. And I was the only one that knew what it was for. Yeah.

Joshie 44:46

Oh, that's beautiful. Um, I mean, I've I've got a couple of tattoos myself, and a few of them have very similar meaning. And I don't think there should be any judgment ascribed to whether something looks silly or out of place. It's you do it for you. And if it's something that you can reflect on, or like you say, tap that part of your body and go, this is gonna ground me or make me be more show more gratitude or reflect on the day and have a different outlook, then that that's beautiful. That's for you. Um, so let me ask you something, uh Rob. What would you say the the version of Rob who couldn't run 300 metres? Think of the think of the person who's sitting here today.

Rob 45:24

First of all, he'd think he's nuts. Why the hell would you choose to run a 50k or attempt a 100k or anything like that? Yeah. But I think that I I can still relate to what I've been my entire life. I can always relate to the kid that sat in his room going, what the hell is going on when he was mid-teens? I can relate to the same kid that took off and lived on an island on a whim in the middle of the ocean for a year and then came back. And I can still think to the same one that was in the army in the middle of nothing, and all of a sudden it's oh, I'm still just stoked with myself. I I've made it. That's all it is. There's no, there's no dollar sign that makes me happy. There's no goal that makes me happy. There's, mate, I woke up today, I I have what I have. I have my wife, my family, like my my dad, Pete's my best mate, my mum's my best mate, so has my sister. Like, I'm so grateful for even my wife. We just spend every moment together. That's that's who we are. We work together, we we live together, and I've got my in-laws that live on the same property, like we all bought it together, and I went, you know what? I made it to here. And I'm that excited for I don't care what comes in the future, it is what it is. But I love that I've woken up each day and that the the kid that was scared and the kid that was depressed and went through so much, I'm still that kid, mate. I've got the mentality of a 15-year-old at best. Like I just nothing's changed from that. But the fact that I I've got a few things that I love, which is a bit of land and a couple of animals. And I've yeah, I've got two feet, a heartbeat, and if I decide to, I can just go for a trot now. I always could, but I I believe that I have the the appreciation of self and go, mate, you you deserve to go and do things you want to do. You deserve to feel happy. Everyone in this world deserves to feel like they're all right in themselves. And that took me a long time to learn. A long, long time that I I'm okay with me. And to be able to talk about it and to be me, mate, that's that's all I need. That's all I've ever needed.

Joshie 47:41

You know, Rob, I know you're only in your 30s. You've got the wisdom of a 60-something year old. I hope you realize that. And before we finish, I'd like to ask one final question that we like to ask all of our guests. Um, looking back on everything that we've spoken about today and reflecting on your journey, what would you say is the biggest lesson that running has taught you about yourself?

Rob 48:00

I think um it's a hard one, isn't it? Oh, I think I've learned that it's it's alright to be you, you don't have to be fast, you don't have to be slow, you don't have to be any in between. You're you and you go out and do what you need. There's the biggest lesson I've learned is that give it a go. That's that's my real takeaway is that it doesn't matter what it is, if it's running, if it's uh you're trying a gym or you're you're trying a new job. Try anything. You can list any of the above. Get out and give it a go. If you don't succeed, well, mate, all right, just wasn't for me right now, no worries. Keep going. What else have I got? What else can I try? And you you will make it. There's no I mean, it's very rare, but you you're not gonna just cut there and then and all hell's gonna break loose. You've get out, give it a go, have a bit of fun, and just in enjoy each day. Enjoy the journey. That's the biggest thing. The race is fun, but the the journey in between is what absolutely makes it. The race is the achievement at the end that you get to go and do that. The building blocks that you provide yourself that you get along the way, that's the enjoyment.

Joshie 49:15

Rob, you should be truly proud of yourself. I'm proud of you for all that you've worked through the best of life working through the best of life working through the next steps in life and your running journey. Thanks so much for chatting with me today. I appreciate it, mate.

Rob 49:35

Driving back from Brisbane for um, I'd done a course down there, yeah, and I was just pissed off. And I was like, I haven't been able to run this week, I haven't been able to do anything, I'm gonna get home late for the goats to feed them. Like, everything was just a problem. And there was that much traffic on the freeway. I'm going, fuck, this just sucks. And I've gone and I had Spotify on, and I've gone, all of a sudden, All-Star by Smashmouth came on. And I've gone, why the fuck is this in my Spotify? And then I've gone, you know what? I said, I've had enough feeling like shit. I said, turn it up and sing like an absolute goose.